Monday, March 26, 2007

Trains, buses and cracked pavement

Just back from three days in the Bay Area, and came away with a few thoughts that seem relevant to the transit- and transportation-besotted Naked City readership:

1. I drove U.S. 101 from the airport south to Palo Alto one day, and the next drove from Palo Alto to San Jose.

One observation: Although San Francisco and San Jose have more than 900,000 residents each and the stretch between the two where Palo Alto lies is full of municipalities, I saw far less litter on 101 than you see on Charlotte's highways. Either they pick up the trash more often or people don't litter as heavily. Makes me even more embarrassed at our slovenly roads -- both city- and state-maintained roads.

Another: The pavement itself was in horrible shape -- even worse than ours. I even saw green stuff (weeds? moss? hard to tell at 60 mph) growing in the pavement potholes and crevices.

2. Took Caltrain from Palo Alto into San Francisco one day. This is Amtrak-like service, which runs as often as every 10-15 minutes during rush hour, and every half hour or so other times, between SF and the suburbs south of San Jose. I took it into the city at midmorning and it was almost filled. Coming home at 3 p.m. it was only partly filled. One-way fare between SF and SJ is $8.25.

Sure would be nice if we could have something similar between, say, Charlotte and Raleigh. Or even Raleigh, Greensboro and Winston-Salem. Anything to relieve I-85 and I-40.

3. San Francisco and its metro area offer multiple public transportation options: In addition to Caltrain, there's the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART), which is "heavy rail," meaning electrified trains fed through the rail below the train. Muni is San Francisco's Municipal Transportation Agency, which runs buses, light rail, historic streetcars, electric trolley coaches and the famous cable cars. And that's just in San Francisco.

Other suburban areas have their own transit systems: e.g. SamTrans, the San Mateo County Transit District which provides bus service and the VTA, the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority, which has bus and light rail service. And Palo Alto offers free shuttle service around the town.

Near as I can tell, the region needs them all -- and more. I took Caltrain, then two buses to get to an art museum, then took a taxi back to the Caltrain station. Trying to make a train (that I missed by 5 minutes) the cabbie went on one of the freeways. It was bumper to bumper. At 2:30 p.m.

What does this mean for Charlotte?

First, we have to be patient. BART began as an idea among civic and government leaders after WWII. Voters approved a BART plan in 1962. Construction started in 1964. It carried its first passengers in 1972.

Second, you can't have effective transportation in a large metro area without multiple choices.
Unless this region's economy tanks, we're going to get a whole lot bigger in coming decades. Starting to build a rapid transit system now will be monumentally cheaper than waiting until we're already choked and built out, because land will be even more expensive then. Adopting a "roads only" approach because the region hasn't hit urban densities as high as older, larger areas is about as smart as waiting until your kid is a sophomore in high school to start saving for college.

75 comments:

Anonymous said...

Though I don't believe we will ever be as big (or as progressive)as the Bay Area, I agree with plans we are implementing now. Expanding the bus syetem and starting the light rail now is a better example of forward thinking in this city. Had past leaders had the same forsight with widening I-77 & I-85 and building I-485 20 years earlier, we wouldn't have near the traffic mess we have now. It all comes down to local leaders and citizens who can anticipate that we are getting bigger no matter what, instead of giving in to the naysayers who are living in the past.

Danimal

Anonymous said...

I think the problem is how governmental bodies have handled things.
- Build the arena regardless of the "no" votes
- City employees overriding politicians direct instructions
- Typical cost overruns - politicians promote projects millions below cost and then go millions more than we projected--tough luck tax payers/federal & state & local

Gene

Jeff said...

"Progressives"? I prefer narcissistic "hypocritical crybaby nanny state socialists". Feel free to use the two interchangeably...I doubt any real american could tell you the difference.

Greg said...

Great article. Variety is everything. We demand choices in everything we buy and deserve them in transportation as well. Atlanta chose a "car commuter only" path and if you have ever passed through that city between 4 and 7pm you will have plenty of time to sit and think about how well that worked out. Interstates, light rails, buses, trollies and bike lanes are effective only when working together.

Anonymous said...

As a resident of Oregon and former Tarheel, I can tell you that littering is less of a problem on the west coast. There is a higher civic consciousness against trashing the environment (including the roadways) here.

Charlotte would do well to at least purchase the right-of-way and lock up its transit corridors now, even if they won't get built in the foreseable future. Zoning could also take the unbuilt corridors into account.

Anonymous said...

Some of us are trying to help charlotte and the South get to the level of consciousness seen in the west coast and other parts of the country. Unfortunately, as seen by other posts here and elsewhere, there is a contingent fighting just as hard to keep the area a backwood cesspool of ignorance for whatever reason. Kepp on keeping on Mr. Oregon. One day, we'll make your home state a place to be proud of.

Anonymous said...

I have a friend who lives in San Francisco. She got rid of her car (parking is a pain) and bought a Vespa and uses Zip Car (a car sharing program) when she needs to drive. No way in hell will she or her husband rely on transit (he has a motorcycle).

I think "mass transit" is not practical and not attractive to anyone who needs to be somewhere on time. I think more thoughts on things like telecommuting, use of car shares, delivery services and things like Vespas better reflect our need for efficient transportation than a rail line or bus service.

Anonymous said...

I would like to see a transit program that focuses on bringing workers who live outside of Mecklenburg county into Charlotte daily. I live in Cleveland County and there are thousands of people who drive 85 from the Gaston/Cleveland County area. How about putting a plan in place for moving these cars off the roads!! I for one would definitely take a train/shuttle daily.

Anonymous said...

Sure would be nice if we could have something similar between, say, Charlotte and Raleigh. Or even Raleigh, Greensboro and Winston-Salem. Anything to relieve I-85 and I-40.

Train service between cities makes sense. That is exactly how most European cities are connected. But inside of most cities in Europe they have efficient and frequent bus service. Only the largest of cities in Europe have rail within the cities.

That leads to the comparison for Charlotte. We are nowhere near the size to have rail inside of Charlotte limits. We should focus on a rail system for the Carolinas that connects us to other major cities. Raleigh, Greensboro, Columbia, etc.

But wasting so much money on a rail line inside of Charlotte is a waste.

Jill said...

Keep on being the rational voice in the commuting wilderness, Mary. I know the implementation of the light rail system has its problems. But you can not ride a Vespa from Davidson to downtown Charlotte, and the commuting population of northern Mecklenburg continues to grow at an alarming rate. As a native of North Carolina, I can only hope enough of these transplants are the civic & transit minded West Coast folks.

Rick said...

To the truly self absorbed posers (that's not a misspelling of poster) who thinks anyone who disagrees with the Uptown crowd is an ignorant fool who likes living in a cesspool, let me ask you a question.

Do you believe in honesty in government? Me thinks you don't.

If this light rail project had been honestly estimated, honestly managed, and honestly promoted, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Either the transit tax in 1998 would have passed with everyone knowing the facts, or it wouldn't. Everyone would have known that it would cost $6-$9 billion dollars instead of $1 billion. Everyone would have known that the low-income neighborhoods of Charlotte would be pushed to the back of the line -again. Everyone would have known that accountability and transparency in government is a fantasy. Everyone would have known that certain developers would make a mint via endless government subsidy. Everyone would have known that this has no impact on congestion or pollution. Everyone would have known that only 2% of the region's commuters would use the service. Everyone would have known that 2/3 of the projected ridership of the South Corridor would come from existing bus riders, accomplishing nothing.

Everyone would have passed the 1998 tax on the truth, and there would be no reason to complain now.

Did the above happen? No it did not.

Lie upon lie was thrown out by supporters of light rail - deliberate, ill-intended lies that have been repeated in other cities and worked. Lie upon lie was fed to the public in hopes that they wouldn't begin to think.

Sorry to disappoint you. We are thinking.

xtian2007 said...

I have lived in NYC for the past ten years, and would consider moving back to Charlotte if its politicians and corporate leaders choose smarth growth stragegies over ones that are at best narrow in scope, e.g. building and widening more highways versus expanding and developing mass transit options. This is not about eliminating the Almighty Automobile- no, you will still be able to drive down the street to get your milk and eggs. I agree with the poster Greg- this is about creating more choices for moving around. As Charlotte continues to grow, the city has to think long-term to accommodate for mass influxes of residents, and cars. And not only are there finite forests that can be cleared for subdivisions, but there is also a limit to how many roads can be built & widened, all to accommodate gasoline guzzlers (which are also guzzling a finite resource- oil -that will sooner rather than later cost much more to use than we like to think).

Keep thinking forward, Mary Newsom and Charlotte! CATS does need to continue to practice better, more efficient management, but not short of giving up on mass transit projects and options.

Kyle said...

Thank goodness the leaders in CATS realize that we need transit.

If we do not meet the federal air quality standards then our highway funding dollars are SHUT OFF. That gives NOBODY an alternative form of transit. If we continue to build roads, our air will suffer, and we will then get no further money to improve them, and we will be out a transit system. What is the good in that? That means the entire area will slowly come to a grinding halt. Business and political leaders realize this, this is why they are so behind the funding of the transit system.

You look to Iredell County, they are so 'anti-transit.' Once they join the Charlotte MSA (probably by 2010), if we do not have our transit in place, we will lose federal dollars by that time, and there will still be no improvements to I-77 by then. All of the people that live north of the current I-485 will be in a continual gridlock, where is the foresight in that? There is none!

Just a random fact for you:
A light rail line can carry as many passengers as an eight-lane freeway but only uses 1/10th of the land that the freeway would take.

More at http://transitfacts.com

Anonymous said...

RICK, I would just like to let you know that nobody back then predicted construction projects and materials to SKYROCKET. This includes all kinds of construction, from buildings to roads to trains. It has nothing to do with mismanagment of money or cost overruns (yes there have been cost overruns on the light rail line, but there have also been delays and cost overruns on I-485). We are talking billions of dollars in increases - cost overruns were in the millions. This is directly related to the fact that it is just more expensive to build things today (thanks to China and their growth boom).

Anonymous said...

If you idiots de-rail the transit plans I hope all of you either choke on your exhaust pipe from your gas guzzling piece of crap while sitting in gridlock traffic 10 years from now or you get hit by a giant SUV and die.

:-D

Ken Rogers said...

Anon 3:57...if raising my level of consciousness requires crushing taxation (sales, local and state) and a lowering of my buying power due to a higher cost of living, then count me as one of the unconscious rubes.

Rick...let's keep the pressure on this group, as it seems they never have a good reply to basic facts and economic fundametals. I surfed the CATS website and found the following tidbits:

South Rail Plan Cost: $465 MM (by no means final); Ridership: 9100 initial riders, 18,400 by 2025.

North Rail Plan Cost: $260 MM (and not even started); Ridership: 4500 per day initially.

North East Rail Plan Cost: $740 MM(and not even started); Ridership of 17,300 in 2030.

Total light rail cost: $1.4 BILLION. At that is just investment, NOT operating cost. Now, consider the Northeast Line and North Line do not start until well after 2010. With the time value of money (3% per year), we can expect the costs for the North and Northeast Line to increase at least $90 MM. I would say that estimate is highly liberal based on the cost increases experienced on the South line.

The cost relative to the benefit is staggering, especially for providing an "option". Would the free market take this on? Not anytime soon since it's financially upside-down.

Anon 3:23 had a terrific idea. Purchasing the right aways to protect these transit corridors. By doing so we can get under the hood of this fiscal craziness, fix the financial models and make wise decisions.

Cato said...

Re: "providing choices"

If someone is standing at point A and wants to get to point B and there are multiple subsidized ways to do it (roads - car or bus, light rail, streetcar, etc) - why is that necessarily a good thing? It seems to mirror the literal, classic textbook example of economic inefficiency - multiple power lines providing electricity over the same area.

Sure, it might be nifty, and the Chamber of Commerce will be able to put some pretty pictures in its brochures, but there's more to be considered than that.

I'm not anti-transit (count me as a bus partisan - and rider) - but I can't see how our slavish commitment to rail - which is the least efficient transit option on the table - at the expense of so many other municipal priorities will benefit us in the long run.

Ken Rogers said...

Further surfing of the CATS website shows the North Corridor at $240MM EXCLUDES the big Gateway Station. No data on cost, but I am quite certain it will have the same financially questionable budget as the rest of the light rail plan.

Cato is right on regarding priorities. We have a school system begging for more money to pay for renovations and new construction, yet we are blindly marching along with a light rail plan that's out of control.

And to Anon 8:44...civil discourse should be the goal of posting on this board. Providing thoughtful and well thought out arguements will benefit all of us.

so annoyed by the idiots said...

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND - A SALES TAX IS NOT AN ADEQUATE FUNDING SOURCE FOR SCHOOLS AND IT WILL HAVE TO BE RAISED MORE THAN HALF A CENT AND IT STILL ISN'T A RELIABLE SOURCE OF FUNDING FOR SCHOOLS. PLUS, IT WOULD REQUIRE LEGISLATURE APPROVAL TO MAKE THE SALES TAX BE DIRECTED TOWARDS SCHOOLS, AND THAT WOULD BE A LONG AND TEDIOUS PROCESS (AND THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL ALLOW IT).

AND FOR THE 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 TIME LEAVE THE ARENA OUT OF THIS. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS - THAT IS A SEPERATE TAX (HOTEL/CAR RENTAL TAX).

Anonymous said...

So annoyed....So the sales tax will fund the light rail plan? Don't bet on it. And why would we want to fund a light rail infrastructure using a "unreliable revenue source". That does not sound wise either.

Anonymous said...

OH MY GOD MORE IDIOTS. THE LIGHT RAIL IS NOT SOLEY FUNDED BY THE SALES TAX. A LARGE PORTION IS PAID FOR BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, SOME BY THE STATE, AND THE REST BY THE SALES TAX (MOST OF IT IS USED FOR OPERATING EXPENSES). THE SALES TAX ALSO HELPS TO FUND AND RUN THE BUS SYSTEM. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.

IF THE TAX IS REPEALED, THEN WE WILL HAVE TO REFUND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (NO POINT IN AN ABANDONED TRAIN LINE) AND THE BUS SYSTEM WILL HAVE TO BE SCALED BACK A LOT. YOU BET YOUR PROPERTY TAXES WILL GO UP.

Anonymous said...

Jay Morrison is using his anti-transit crusade to help him with his school board agenda. Do not trust this man - he is short-sighted and knows nothing about what he is talking about. Yeah right - use the sales tax for schools. Like it would be that easy - just sign a piece of paper and there you go. I don't think so. He is an idiot and will cause your property taxes to escalate. If he is so rich and "can afford a Ferrari" a HALF CENT sales tax should be the least of his worries.

Anonymous said...

The property taxes are going up anyway to subsidize the lite rail plan. Don't be fooled other wise.

Where exactly do you think the federal government gets the money its donating to the cause...TAXES. Yours. Mine. Ours. It's not free.

Let's compromise. We'll keep the 65% of the sales tax alive to keep the buses running and eliminate the 35% being flushed down the rat hole on light rail. The only way to keep these transit folks from spending like drunken fools is to cut off the Visa card.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is full of backwoods, backwards thinking people.

I hope in 10 years, the economy here busts, people realize how stupid and short-sighted Charlotte ciitzens are, and this city falls apart. I would laugh.

Anonymous said...

Mary, you should just quit and move somewhere else where people will actually understand what you are saying.

Charlotte is a lost cause!

native said...

I've been here all my life. A small town mentality and a large, growing city do not mix. Drop the small town crap, and move to one. Let this city progress and move on.

greg said...

CATO,

Providing choices refers to the fact that no one just goes from point A to point B so we have to include C,D,E,F and G. Your term "economically inefficient" applies to a number of things including driving a Suburban, alone, from Ballantyne to the bank, doing 10 circles in a parking deck and driving it back. HOWEVER, that same Suburban is great for taking a family of five to the beach for a weekend and hauling everyone's stuff. You don't need more than a chair to to hold your briefcase but you need a lot more for surfboards.

Road work and a fatal wreck on the interstate? Take the rail.

Rail cars backed up as the new system is worked out? Take the interstate.

Going to the airport for a business trip? Take the bus.

Entertaining guests from out of town? Take the trolley or a cab.

Just want a friggin' sandwich up the street? Take your bike!

Each mode has a function. When one of them falls apart, and ALL of them do, hopefully we will have options available from which to choose.

Anonymous said...

Under the current plan about 30% of the Mecklenburg Sales Tax is collected from people that live OUTSIDE the County. If the Sales Tax repeal passes then 100% of the cost of Transit will be paid for by County Residents.

Some of the morons proposing the repeal of the Transit Tax state that the City could put up a 1/4 Sales Tax on the November Ballot to fund "bus only." What they don't tell you is that would require NC Legislature approval and the likelyhood of that happening in time to put it on the November ballot is next to zero.

Josh said...

I think the last qoute in your blog says it all.
Starting to build a rapid transit system now will be monumentally cheaper than waiting until we're already choked and built out, because land will be even more expensive then. Adopting a "roads only" approach because the region hasn't hit urban densities as high as older, larger areas is about as smart as waiting until your kid is a sophomore in high school to start saving for college.

You are smarter than most. Keep posting sensible information it is highly valued.

Anonymous said...

Money and what things cost is all relevant. I'm sure back when MARTA in Atlanta was first built, people were complaining about how expensive it was. Well, now it is a whole lot more expensive to expand it today. In the big scheme of things, it is cheaper today than it will be a year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years from now.

Ken Rogers said...

I have seen many passionate arguements from the light rail supporters. The discussions thus far, however, don't address the following: at what cost do we provide these transit options? One billion...five billion...twenty billion? When do we finally stop and evaluate where we are and where we are going? The CATS plan is not fully implemented until 2025, what is a 1 year delay going to hurt in getting our financial bearings set?

Unfortunately the way we are funding this has put us into a corner: an all or nothing sales tax. Status quo (...keeping the sales tax in place) provides little-to-no incentive for CATS to get the financial house in order. Stopping the funding does. What if the tax is repealed, CATS cleans-up the mess and comes back to re-enact the sales tax? If light rail truly has support, it should be a no brainer to start it again, especially with a sound financial model.

We have a real opportunity here to ensure we are being financially prudent while ensuring a better future for the next generation.

Anonymous said...

The funny thing is, it hasn't even begun service yet. Everybody just has "ideas" about what will happen (most of them negative). Why don't you short-sighted people give it a chance first.

Anonymous said...

If the transit tax stays, then I am sure certain corridors will open up sooner than projected. The extension of the South Line to the Northeast part of town will help increase use and ridership. Right now it may seem like a "train to nowhere" but in the future that will not be true. I would love to see UNCC better connected to the city, and transit, especially rail is a great way to do that. There will always be traffic, so give me options!

Anonymous said...

Funnier yet is that it started at $500MM, is not completely built and by data from CATS will cost $1.4 BILLION. Hilarious.

bye bye economy said...

We need transit to help attract the young professionals. When all the old baby boomers retire and die off (like Jay Morrision, hopefully that will be soon), then what?

Anonymous said...

Come November, the light rail line will be at least partially open, the repeal referendum will lose by a 2-1 margin (if the latest polls I see are true), and Jay Morrison will still be hiding in his house hiding from interviews (and probably spitting in someone's face as he is apparently prone to do). For those of you saying the cost overruns are the reason for this repeal initiative, PUH-LEEEZE! You carmudgeons have been looking for any reason to sabotage Charlotte's future...ANYTHING! Some of you are probably the same fools that fought I-485's construction in the 80's and Douglas Airport's expansion in the '70's (why build a runway when we only have 10 flights a day, right?). If you don't like the taxes here and are pinching your 1/2 pennies so much, why don't you move to some bass-ackwards cat filled sandbox like Sumter, SC or Philadelphia, MS where nothing has changed in the last 50 years? It sounds like those places would suit you well. Let the majority of Charlotte move forward without you.

Uncle Dennis said...

In my best Andy Rooney voice:

Why is it that people think that paying $50 tax on every $10,000 they spend to fund a transit system that will help move people is bad?

Why is it that people complain that the NON BINDING referendum on the Arena/Arts package is somehow more important than the BINDING approval for a sales tax to support transit?

Why is it that we do not demand to have a repeal of that NON BINDING Arena/Arts package as part of the transit tax repeal?

Why is it that no one seems to remember the gridlock that a mear 6,000 additional cars caused to Uptown Charlotte last year when there was a special motivational seminar at Bobcats Arena? By most accounts, there should be that many more cars coming to Uptown on a daily basis probably within 5 years.

Why is it that people think that as Uptown continues its growth as the center of the region that cheap surface parking lots will somehow continue to exist?

Why is it that EVERY organization, from religion to charities, to government to private business, to vote gathering is somehow considered fiscally responsible and transit management is considered corrupt?

Why is it that in a political system that is designed to have elected officials make long reaching decisions that we feel the recourse to those decisions is to fight the decisons and not the decision makers?

Why is it that while we want to continue to get increases in our pay (for no noticeable increase in performance) we balk when we see cost increases in goods and services? Anyone remember the $.25 pack of cigarettes, the $.25 loaf of bread, the $.05 phone call from a booth?

It seems to me we are focusing on a particular tree, while the forest around us is getting thick. Charlotte will never be the small town it was in the 50's. It is the second largest financial center in the country! Second Largest! We are on a grow or die treadmill, why do we seem to think that if everything were to stay the same it would be ok?

Why indeed?

UD

Rick said...

UD,

You are famous for not owning a car - right?

There is no mass transit system you are using other than buses - right?

Why do you insist that we spend billions on another alternative when a usable, workable, affordable, one already exists?

As was mentioned repeatedly at last night's City Council meeting, tax repeal is about anti-train madness and being anti-waste.

Larry Baumgardener, a member of the Citizens Advisory Committee to CATS, specifically mentioned continuing to buy land for future corridors, supporting the bus system, and supporting transit in general when it is proven.

Obviously this takes money.

The current repeal effort is only being undertaken because the powers that be refuse to listen to reason.

They could pursue new language on a buses only tax, or re-vote on the existing language with the money being directed to buses only.
You would hear no complaints from me. In fact I would work hard to support those options.

If the repeal is successful, then suddenly this option will bubble to the top. Of course the effort has to get past our government's dishonest scare tactics first. That may be a tall order, but I sleep well at night knowing I'm not on their side.

fed up said...

First of all, Kyle, light rail will have no impact whatsoever on air quality. The top 10 most polluted cities all have rail.
This rail project is about high density development for a larger tax base to fund city government and profits for developers ( and their city official friends ).

After reading all these blogs, other cities transit / rail histories, etc., I have come to the conclusion that here in Charlotte we have what's called "the wrong execution of the right idea."

I am not anti-transit ( I love the bus and think we should support that where it makes sense ) and I'm not anti-rail...if it makes sense.
But whovever is making some of these decisions is way over their head.
Charlotte as a city has never been much for forward thinking or even visionary. Most long term plans look 5 maybe 10 years down the road.
But who allowed the pink building to be built that tall with no foresight as to what might be developed south of it blocking any and all view of the city. This is the same mentality of developers who design ridiculous parking lots ( like some of the Independence strip malls or AMC22 paza where lanes criss cross and stop signs / lights cause all kinds of flow problems.
Whether the tax is repealed or not makes no difference. Charlotte can find funds for the buses if they can jump through hoops for Arts Council projects that really should be funded by private donors.

Time to get some adults from San Fran or New York or elsewhere who know how to develop transit for this city's future...rather than some mover & shaker's golf buddy who happens to be a Charlotte developer.
This has been like an owner of a store having his/her 8 year old design their logo because they can draw well.

Get someone in here who knows what they're doing...fire Ron Tober...

Anonymous said...

Costs rise for everything but somehow transit is held to a different standard. I-485 cost to complete originally was estimated at $575M. Now it is estimated at $1.231 Billion. Independence Boulevard cost to complete originally was estimated at $57M, now it is estimated to cost $333M. Who is screaming about that? Costs rise. That's an economic reality. Building transit now will be less expensive than building it later.

While transit never promised to eliminate congestion, it most certainly will add travel capacity to congested corridors. Do the math. 18,000 people riding on transit are 18,000 people not in cars on the road.

fed up said...

18,000 will not be taking the train on the South Blvd. corridor.

I agree with you that costs rise.
That is life. I think most people understand that.
What many are upset about is the lack of building cost adjustments into the initial proposals. They were intentionally low-balled to get the votes when it was known the cost was higher. That slight of hand was still going on last year!

If rail is to be built, then we need better people planning it...

Anonymous said...

Conspiracy theorists seem to swirl around any important public issue. What makes one believe that off the mark cost estimates are intentional for one type of project (transit) but not for others (highways) where the error is far greater? The rigor and oversight required for cost and ridership estimating for federally funded transit projects is far greater than required for federally funded road projects. It is a double standard. South Corridor ridership will far exceed the very conservative estimates required to qualify for federal funding. Every U.S. light rail project that has opened over the past 10 years has enjoyed greater ridership than projected. That's a fact. Check it out.

Lewis Guignard said...

Poor UD, so many questions, so few answers.

The issue would be transit and taxes.

1st. The automobile replaced the horse and horse and buggy. So too do bicycles. They all need roads, and roads have existed for milenniums. These private methods of transportation offer the most versatile and convenient form of transportation. However, they are expensive and the roads take up a certain amount of land.

2nd. Rail is expensive and unadaptable to change. It is good for moving large volumes of people (or product) from one specific point to another. If the need of the rider is not on the rail line, the rail cannot offer an alternative.

3rd. Airlines. Very similar in all aspects to rail, except they are in large part privately operated.

4th. Buses. Relatively adaptable. Compared to trains, relatively inexpensive. They use roads, which take a lot of land.

5th. Taxis (or Zip Cars - a new idea to me, whose time is come. I rent a car when I need one.)
As versatile as cars, without the personal investment.

If we were making decisions to move people from one area to another, the idea of city commuter rail would lose to other more adaptable and less expensive modes of transport.

A bus system which is not just a hub and spoke operation could be very adaptable, using smaller buses combined with taxis, to pick people up AT HOME, and deliver them to the door where they wish to go.

Locally, it would seem rail is overkill.

So UD would contact the bus system sometime previous to his appointment, he would be told what time he would be picked up. He may be picked up by taxi, van or bus. He might ride to a local terminal where he would switch to a main line bus going to another terminal across town, where he would switch to local (bus, van or taxi) and be delivered to the door.

The airlines do it everyday with people. Trucking companies do it millions of times a day as does the mail service.

It's not rocket science, it would take desire, and we could have the best mass transit system anywhere.

So why do we not?

Anonymous said...

Lewis Guignard,
We don't because it will not eliminate cars on the road with that plan. Just like UD said, "doesn't anyone remember the grid lock we had from only 6,000 additional cars" ?
Autos are not the answer. Changing the way you commute around is the answer. It's a mindset that needs to occur. UD inspired me 2 months ago by reading his story. I sold my car the following week and have been on the bus, walked or biked ever since. It's amazing how simple it really is.
I am looking foward to the rail. It will add yet another option to go North and South and go it faster and cleaner.
Do none of you believe in the global warming issues we are confronting ? Do you all think it's a joke ?
Please don't tell me you get your science from junkscience. Steven Milloy, the owner of the site is an oil lobbyist.

Ken Rogers said...

Reading through this blog has been very enlightening. The passions are quite intense on both sides. Again, my basic premise has not been addressed: are the benefits truly worth the costs?

I did some fact checking on the Char-Meck website for tax and budget information. I found some interesting data.

According to data presented to City Council last nite, repeal of the 1/2 sales tax would increase the property tax between 4% (bus only) and 22% (bus + 1 train line). The revenue generated by property tax is forecasted at $247.4MM for '07, with an additional $17.6MM from county assesment for shared services (ie: CATS, police, etc). Based on this, the bus only plan incremental is $10.6 MM and the bus+1 line is $58.27 MM. So, one light rail line costs 4.5 times more to operate than the entire the bus system.

It can be extrapolated that a bus + 3 train lines would have an incremental cost of $153.61MM based on '07 dollars. Per the Char-Mek budget, the transit sales tax revenue is forecasted at $62.2 MM in '07. When the full system is online, the operating expenses will be 2.5 times greater (...deficit) than the transit sales tax revenue. Where will this deficit be funded? An increase the transit portion of the sales tax to 1.15 cents would fill the gap, but what politician will approve a measure allowing Mecklenburg's sales tax to balloon to 8.6%? Sale taxes are not generally progressive, as their revenue tends to decline as the rate increases. The next available revenue stream is property taxes.

The current straw man in the transit tax repeal debate is that elimination of the 1/2 cent sales tax will lead to property tax increases. It's quite clear that property taxes have to increase anyway in order to pay the operating deficit of the full system. It's basically pay me now or pay me later, but you will pay in any case.

Are we really going to get our money's worth considering the investment and expenses? It does not seem that way from a financial view. At let's be frank, while providing a social good and "choices/options" is commendable, someone has to pay for that free ride.

Action now to get the fiscal house in order at CATS will benefit us all in the future.

Anonymous said...

For those who believe the beloved transit line is an answer to global warming think again.

For those who give up their cars in search of a helping to decrease the increase in global warming think again.

If you truly want to make a difference, then you must give up all things you do which create atmospheric CO2 by their existence.

Canned foods, air conditioning, heating, man made fibers, frozen foods, fresh produce out of season, most meat products at the grocery store, movies, tv, computers, newspapers, books, even transit.

For one reason or another almost everything you consume takes artificial energy to produce, keep fresh or bring to the store.

So giving up a car in order to walk, while continuing high level consumption habits indicates giving up the car to combat global warming is a pat on the back for personal aggrandizement, but not to be taken seriously unless followed with the program indicated above.

Anonymous said...

Personal aggrandizement my butt. I do what I can personally do to help. It's not to pat myself on the back. I don't go around petitioning people to "do as I do". I never stated that I am carbon nuetral. That's Mr. Gore big logo.
I walk, bike, bus or on a trip we take my wifes hybrid. She bikes, walks, takes the Gold Rush or in really bad weather takes her Prius. When she does take the car it's only a 2.5 mile drive to her office and she can get there almost entirely on battery power alone.
So please Bud, we are trying our best as far as transportation and our options go.
I personally got rid of my car because there was a bus full of 70 people going "my way" every day. It seemed rediculous not to catch a ride and take one more car off the road. So please don't argue that transit doesn't help. Every single car off the road is less pollution in the air. If you can't figure that out there's no help for you at all.
As far as canned good go, I don't buy them. Meat, I eat very, very little. Produce, I shop at the farmers market uptown during season which is supplied from local farmers. There are also other small produce stores in the close area to my home that sell local produce earlier than and later than the farmers market season.
Hell, I even take my own canvas bags to the market when I shop.
I recycle, use Energy Star bulbs, all of my appliances are Energy Star. My place is a small loft of 700 sq, ft, with lots of windows. In the winter I can leave the blinds open and I almost never have to turn the heat on. In the summer I close the blinds in the heat of the day and I save tons on a/c due to the smaller sq. footage. My highest electric bill was $54 for 2006. Lowest was $37.
I don't have cable since for me it is a waste of time. I prefer walking in the city, biking, grabbing a beer at the pub, a show or dinner. If I want to relax at home I watch a movie. YES, I do have a t.v., I just don't fill my brain with the mush on Time Warner. I don't receive the newspaper.
All I do is try to help out where I can. That's it.
If everyone did try a little harder, just a little, it would make a difference. But if they all lived like I do, just do the math. Big difference.
But like I said I am not saying "live like I do". All I am stating is that if more people did then a dramatic difference would be seen. We wouldn't eliminate all the pollution but we would certainly get rid of a ton of it.
It's more convienient for people to point the finger at how what you are doing doesn't matter or wont help or isn't enough to eliminate all of the global warming. I believe it's just because they themselves are too lazy to change. If they can conjure up in their mind a reason that they can justify not changing, then the lazy will do just that.
But hey, that's just my opinion. You do whatever you want.

Rick said...

Ken,

One option which DOES avoid property tax increases is to repeal the tax now to stop train madness, then reinstate it with another vote later with the money going only to fund buses and the existing rail line.

This avoids all of the doomsday scenarios presented by CATS as well as your doomsday scenarios (but realistic ones) that show sales or property taxes ballooning if we charge ahead.

If this approach is taken, the politicians avoid raising taxes from today's rates for both property and sales - at least in support of rail.

The rail defenders will now say one of two things.

"You require state approval to change the language of the current tax, and that is inconvenient." As inconvenient as rail lines built on shakey financing?

"You can't redirect the tax to other needs." I would agree if you mean anything other than buses and roads. This is a transit tax, and I would say those both fall into that category.

Eventually, once the petitions are counted and the writing is on the wall, this will become the most politically vialble option.

Anonymous said...

in the meantime china builds 10 more coal fired electric plants, duke builds 1 and who knows how many get built in the rest of the world and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere goes up at an increasing rate

see the interesting article in THE ATLANTIC this month which includes why Russia and Canada may think global warming is a good thing

Rick said...

I've got to say, the previous anon has an impressive list of energy saving approaches to life, and it is very, very admirable.

He is right, if we all lived like he did, then the world would be a very different place.

Congratulations to you on your choices!

... and he did it all without the train.

Uncle Dennis said...

I believe it was Lewis that suggested that a rail line was most effective in moving people or goods from point A to point B.

Well, if'n you examine that, then you may conclude that it becomes important to keep point A and point B healthy. If someone chooses to abandon one of those points, the vacancy is immediately filled by someone who wishes easy and consistent access to the other point.

The rail plan that Charlotte has adopted is driven around corridor development, and the sustainability and health of those corridors will become stronger due to the rail line. A bus line does not have the same commitment.

Sprawl developers dislike a rail line because it keeps the focus on the sustainable infill areas, ones that already have infrastructure, as opposed to farmlands located outside the city that have only acreage.

Flattening of houseing prices in areas like Eastland Mall will not occur near a transit station, the demand to live there will be too great to allow that to happen.

Look at the ridership of the Gold Rush lines. There used to be 3 lines, Red, Orange, and Blue. The Red line runs from the Gateway area to the new County Courthouse along Trade Street, basically connecting BOA's Gateway center with Tryon. Packed!

The Orange line runs from 10th Street to Morehead Street down Tryon, and it has moderate ridership.

The now defunct Blue line ran basically down Mint Street, around and down what is now Martin Luther King Drive, up McDowell Street, and then around Seventh Street. They ended that line as there were really no point A's or B's along its way.

As the First Ward continues its rapid development, and the Second Ward's Brooklyn development comes on line, along with the Third Wards boom, I would expect it to return.

Read the Transit Plan, it clearly calls for corridors and points of interest.

UD

Anonymous said...

But UD, what of those people who don't live on the rail line.

While a bus system doens't have that commitment, it doesn't have to. It is flexible. Rail has no choice in the commitment.

The difference will be in who is able to use the rail lines and who can't or won't.

Traffic patterns reflect people's desire and need to move from one place to another, which rail can provide only a small percentage of the time.

The bus plan delineated earlier would provide public transportation for anyone who chose to use it, going to any place. Key words ANYONE and ANYPLACE.

Rail, by its nature is limited.

So why not have an excellent bus system? Why do we waste money on a train system which requires artificial economic support?

Lewis

Anonymous said...

CATS just moved my closest bus stop. Now it is a 1.1 mile walk uphill in the morning from my home. I'm 64. Can't do it. So my old car is back on the road. I rode the #15 to uptown for nearly 30 years. No more. Thanks, CATS.

My property tax is currently 10% of my salary. As soon as I retire, I will be forced out of Charlotte.

I have worked hard for my money. I'd like to keep some of it. Keep your hand out of my pocket, tax and spend crowd. IT'S MY MONEY.

Anonymous said...

Either move closer to mass transit or move outside of the area when you retire. Or if you can bike get a bicycle to ride that 1.1 mile.
For me personally, if I worked uptown and was 64 and couldn't walk 1.1 miles I would definitely live closer to town. Every town that grows into a city sees the same thing.
Why do you think so many retired Northerners move South ?
Cheaper to live in Charlotte on a fixed income than in NY.
Also, at 64 you are fastly approaching the age to where you will be dipping your hands into the tax money jar. So don't be so quick to blame the "tax and spend people".
Some of that money will be going to you.

Anonymous said...

By the way............it's not YOUR money.
Everyone puts into the pot. We try to make decisions that benefit everyone all across the board. Not just the one YOU like.
Sounds like a case of grouchy old conservativitis.

Pathmaker said...

Regarding the post that energy conservation doesn't matter ...I suppose it's easy to think that way since the U.S. consumes 25% of the world's energy supply while housing 5% of the world's population. Obviously, 95% of the world's population can live within their energy means. Secondly, I am struck by the lack of community consciousness of some posters. It seems they believe that because they personally won't use a public service, it shouldn't exist. As for me, I seldom use Independence Boulevard or I-485 -- and would likely not benefit from someone else using these roads -- but I see the benefit for the community, not just me, even though they don't meet any sort of cost-benefit measure. Similarly, we need public schools and jails even though everyone doesn't use them. Same with transit -- thousands of Charlotte residents rely on it every day. Light rail will enhance the quality of life for those who choose to use it -- and will likely accrue benefits to those who don't.

Anonymous said...

Pathmaker,
I totally agree. Charlotte's lack of community consciousness is mind boggling. It has a very self centered population. Or the entire country may be that way. I hope not.
Koodos to San Fran who today just passed law that no large pharmacies, chain store or supermarkets can any longer give out plastic bags to customers.
That's the kind of community consciousness we need to strive for in Charlotte. On all topics from transportation to the environment to schools and so on.

Ken Rogers said...

Pathmaker....

Just so I better understand, you would not benefit if someone else used from I-485 or Independence Blvd. Hmmm...

Where do you get your food? Harris Teeter? Their distribution center in on Hwy 74 (Independence). What if some of the goods you buy land at Wilmington's sea port? They'll be shipped to Charlotte stores via Hwy-74 and possibly I-485. Ok, maybe you shop 100% on-line. Well, Hwy 74 and I-485 are major arteries near the airport, so its possible Fed Ex or UPS used either one on the way to deliver your package. Could any of this be provided, improved or made more efficient or improved with light rail? Probably not.

I am not against the light rail system. I would like to see trains on all the corridors. But I am having real difficulty fathoming how everyone can turn a blind eye to the shaky financing that's serving as the foundation for the system. See my earlier post regarding the certainty of a property tax increase even if the transit tax is not repealed.

Stop, re-evaluate, fix and reinstate. We just need to take the first step: stopping.

Alex said...

There are two main reasons why the light rail is built
1) to increase the housing density along South Blvd (which, at this moment, is in a bad state)
2) because Charlotte paid only 25% of the costs.
The era of sprawling will be gone soon. While the light rail may not be the best idea for the moment, it is a good idea fo rthe future. Regarding buses, one may please look at the Superbus.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/01/15/ft.superbus/
That would be really impressive

Alex said...

links about Superbus

1) http://www.heingartner.com/
superbus.htm

2) edition.cnn.com/2007/
TECH/science/01/15/ft.superbus/

3) http://connectedcities.eu/
guide/superbus.html

Anonymous said...

I understand enough signatures on the tax repeal petition will be turned in today to require the question be put on the ballot.

We may now expect more misleading information from the usual sources. The usual sources being CATS, Charlotte City Staff, the major and his cronies, the downtown crowd, including the Chamber, the editorial staff at the Observer, and the 'news' articles in the Observer.

As an aside, I find the name Observer to be misleading as it is more of a propaganda organ for the downtown crowd.

Anonymous said...

How is it self-centered or lacking in community consciousness to demand accountability from our elected officials. They are charged with ensuring the collective well-being, not just the well being of a few. A very few in the case of light rail. By the way the Opinion page has a fiesty exchange going on right now in response to the Tax op-ed.

Rick said...

Alex, actually we were told we'd only pay 25% of the cost.

Then the overruns hit. I believe Charlotte's percentage of the South line is now about 35% because the locality gets stuck with much of the overruns. The Observer failed to accurately report the percentages in yesterday's opinion column - only giving "close" approximations. In any event, Charlotte's percentage is well over 25%.

The North Corridor will get no federal funding and probably no state funding. That's 100% on the local tax payer. Same for the center city street car line.

The Northeast Corridor is currently at about $750 million. When that goes over budget as can be expected. (Isn't that one of the main arguments lately of the pro-train crowd, that ALL public works projects go over budget - making it OK?) Charlotte will get hit with most of those overuns.

Using the "Charlotte only pays 25% of the bill" line is exactly the type of misleading, deceptive, and flat out untrue sales pitch that the petition is working against.

Anonymous said...

Fools, total fools. If you think they are going to scale transit back or shut down the train you are asleep at the wheel. All that is going to happen is that instead of paying $50 transit tax a year on the $10,000 you may spend on groceries and clothing you will now pay another 10% in property taxes.
Charlottes track record shows that the government will do what they see fit for the future. If you don't like it too bad.
Taxes will be raised and all of you conservative nut jobs will look like the jackasses that you truely are.
What the hell is with the "downtown crowd" lingo anyway ? How about the "cul-de-sac crowd" I like the ring of that better.
Jerkoffs !

Anonymous said...

Enjoyed the language of the 3/30 7:44 AM post. Illuminating words, descriptive of the posters inablility to use the language.

We only have to wait on the vote. Talk is over. City Council will then have a fit maintaining the rail line for the downtown crowd (culdesack crowd hardly) without raising the property tax rate so much it scares off growth. Ah the dilemma!!!

And just think, we'll get to vote against a CMS bond issue the same day. They're going to propose another $500 B in waste.

OTHER -

Global Warming.

Given: It exists, although not for any great length of time.
Given: Man has influenced the weather with his output of CO2 and CH3 etc.

Question: Why is it bad?

NOTES: 20,000 years ago the oceans were 250 to 300 feet shallower than they are now, but much of the northern hemisphere was covered in ice.

If the oceans rise more and temperatures go up, land which is now unarable will become so, while other land is flooded. This will change agriculture and living habits. So!

It appears those who oppose these changes are becoming conservatives - stay as we are.

It also indicates the believers imagine the weather, more accurately, the climate, would remain the same without man's influence.

Great imaginations.

Lewis Guignard

Anonymous said...

Lewis Guignard,
I have been reading this post for months. Keeping my mouth shut and just observing. The thing I get out of this entire back and forth bantering is that you are most certainly a pompous ass.
The type of person that needs a nice hard smack in the face in order to wake up.
I would be happy to oblige. Honestly.
As far as the new vote on the train. I am very confident that the majority of Charlotte will vote to keep the tax as oppossed to getting a hefty real estate tax increase. You folks are nothing more than a bunch of crying conservatives. Nothing much has changed with your group except the fact that your numbers are shrinking in Charlotte due to the influx of outsiders.
50,000 people, most of them lied to in order to get the petition signed. That's a drop in the bucket if this goes to a vote.
Keep on dreaming. The train will run.

Anonymous said...

Global warming may not be bad ? Hmmm, are you sure you are not from Rock Hill or Gastonia ?
I've seen your photo online. You look pretty inbred to me.

Anonymous said...

I'm listed in the phone book, and not very hard to find.

Unlike anonymous posters.

Lewis Guignard

Anonymous said...

BART, along with the Metro (DC and urbs) and MARTA (Atlanta), were all dissed when they were proposed and budgeted. Now you can hardly get a seat houses near a station double in value.

We have to remember that rail transit is a plan for decades and we've only been arguing for a few years. When I'm long off Social Security, Charlotteans will thank us for building it now.

Anonymous said...

tibia money tibia gold tibia item runescape money runescape gold tibia money tibia gold runescape gold runescape accounts tibia gold tibia money runescape money runescape gp buy runescape gold tibia gold tibia item buy runescape money runescape gold runescape items tibia money tibia gold

Anonymous said...

wager junction -
wager profits -
wssb casino -
wssb sport -
9 am -
9 games -
9 poker -
acf webmaster -
action gold -
action poker -
affiliate lounge -
all jackpots -
all slots -
amber coast casino -
apues tas -
aus vegas -
bet bet -
bet casino -
bet com -
bet holdem -
bets son -
bet wwts -
big bettys bingo -
bingo 777 -
bingo bank roll -
bingo cabin -
bingo cafe -
bingo fantasy -
bingo for money -
bingo hall -
bingo liner -
bingo palace -
bingo program -
bingo reward -
bingo royalty -
bingos -
bingos uk -
bright right -
canadas best bingo -
capital bingo -
casino 770 -
casino domain -
casino euro -
casino partouche -
casino pay check -
casino webcam -
cherry casino -
city club casino -
cyber sportsbook -
earn united -
el bingo -
first web casino -
galactic bingo -
gaming income -
geisha bingo -
giant vegas -
gran casino espana -
hampton casino -
hotel casino network -
internet bingo -
jackpot factory -
jackpot joy -
jackpot wheel -
jet bingo -
juegos 65 -
jupiter club -
lake palace -
mahjong time -
my bookie -
nine -
nine am -
nine games -
nine poker -
oasis casino -
oyna 65 -
paradise affiliates -
paradise poker -
play 65 -
play united -
poker -
poker cs -
poker in canada -
poker share -
portofino casino -
race track casino -
refer bingo -
revenue giants -
royal card club -
royal dice -
sandpiper casino -
shark casino -
sierra star casino -
slots village -
speed bet -
stars and stripes bingo -
tcads -
tiger gaming -
ultimate bet -
vegas experts -
vics bingo -
wild jack casino -
wild jack mobile -
wild jack poker -
winward casino -
24h poker -
24kt gold casino -
400 affiliates -
7 sultans -
7 sultans poker -
absolute poker -
acropolis casinos -
aspinalls online casino -
atlantic lounge -
aztec riches casino -
bet 365 -
bet 365 poker -
bet fred -
bet max casino -
bet on usa -
bingo promoter -
blackjack ballroom -
captain cooks casino -
casino 365 -
casino blasters -
casino controller -
casino rewards -
casino room -
celeb poker -
cindys poker -
club euro casino -
club uk casino -
club usa casino -
cocoa casino -
crystal palace casino -
da vincis gold -
desert dollar -
diamond club casino -
ecard room -
euro poker -
festive bingo -
flamingo club -
fortune affiliates -
fortune room -
gigia slot -
global player -
golden palace -
golden palace bingo -
golden palace mobile -
golden palace poker -
golden tiger casino -
gold nugget casino -
grand online -
havana club -
holdem poker -
i net bet -
inter champs -
island poker -
jackpot palace -
ladies bingo -
las seters -
las vegas casino -
lucky emperor -
metro casino -
online casino -
pacific poker -
paradise 8 -
paradise eight -
pharaohs casino -
phoenician casino -
platinum play -
play 4 free -
play and deal -
players club casino -
poker affiliate -
poker room -
pure slots -
purple lounge -
pyramid casino -
rewards parking -
rock the wallet -
royal vegas -
seven sultans -
sia casino -
slot fever casino -
slot land -
slots -
slots 24 -
slots cr -
slots plus -
strike it lucky casino -
sun palace casino -
sunset casino -
this is vegas -
touch stone poker -
true earnings -
twin aces casino -
vc casino -
vc poker -
vegas casino online -
vegas lucky -
vegas magic -
vegas palms -
vegsa villa -
victor chandler casino -
video poker classic -
virtual city casino -
yukon gold casino -
zodiac casino -
32 vegas -
777 dragon -
aces high -
all poker casino -
aposte -
arthurian casino -
cameo casino -
caribbean gold -
carnival casino -
casino bleu blanc rouge -
casino coins -
casino del rio -
casino fortune -
casino fortune uk -
casino mb -
casino partners -
casino pays -
casino tropez -
casino us -
cd casino -
cd poker -
cinema casino -
club dice casino -
club dice poker -
college poker championship -
colosseum casino -
crazy vegas casino -
crazy vegas poker -
diamond casino -
diamond club casino -
diamond club poker -
english habour -
english habour poker -
english habour uk -
europa casino -
fortune lounge -
gaming club -
gaming club poker -
gaming club uk -
gold gate casino -
gold key casino -
grand hotel casino -
grand prix lotto -
hammers casino -
home casino -
jackpot city -
joyland casino -
lucky nugget -
lucky nugget casino uk -
lucky nugget poker -
magic oasis -
mapau -
mapau bingo -
mapau de -
maple casino -
miami beach -
millionaire casino -
monaco gold casino -
new york casino -
orbital casino -
playgate casino -
playgate poker -
poker forum championship -
poker ocean -
poker show -
poker time -
prestige bingo -
prestige casino -
prestige poker -
refer back -
river belle -
river belle poker -
royal plaza casino -
royal vegas -
royal vegas poker -
ruby bingo -
ruby bingo uk -
showdown casino -
silver dollar -
silver dollar casino -
sunny diamonds -
sun vegas -
super slots -
super slots bingo -
titan poker -
usa casino -
vegas 7 casino -
vegas affiliates -
vegas country casino -
vegas joker casino -
vegas partner -
vegas red -
vegas slot casino -
vegas towers -
windows casino -
you bingo -
49er casino -
50 stars casino -
888 -
888 casino -
ace club -
bet 19 -
bet euro -
bet game day -
bet on games -
bet on races -
black pool bingo -
black widow casino -
cabaret club casino -
caribbean sun poker -
car sands -
casino france net -
casino king -
casino las vegas -
casino onliner -
casino on net -
casino profit share -
challenge casino -
cirrus casino -
club player casino -
cool cat casino -
cs casino -
empire poker -
ep -
fair deal sports -
fair poker -
fast win casino -
five card charlie -
gambling wages -
geisha lounge -
golden reef casino -
golden riviera casino -
golden riviera poker -
good as gold casino -
grand aces -
grand banks casino -
i play tournaments -
jackpots in a flash -
king solomons -
kiwi bingo -
kiwi bingo uk -
kiwi casino -
kiwi casino poker -
luck n roll casino -
mad bingo -
magic box casino -
miami paradise -
miss bingo -
mummys gold -
music hall casino -
noble poker -
nostalgia casinos -
omni casino -
palace of chance -
party bingo -
party casino -
party casinos -
party poker -
peach casino -
piggs casino -
piggs peak -
planet luck -
poker 333 -
poker metro -
poke round -
rich webmaster -
river nile casino -
roxy palace -
roxy poker -
ruby fortune -
s casino -
slots alley casino -
slots royale -
spass kasino -
spin palace -
spin palace poker -
sports interaction -
star luck casino -
sterling house casino -
sun poker -
swiss casino -
the sands -
the sands of caribbean -
tiki bingo -
uk casino club -
vegas splendido -
vip casinos -
vip horses -
vip poker -
vip profits -
vip soccer -
vip sports -
wager junction -
wager profits -
wssb casino -
wssb sport -
action gold -
action poker -
affiliate lounge -
all jackpots -
all slots -
all star affiliates -
amber coast casino -
apues tas -
aus vegas -
bella vegas -
bet bet -
bet casino -
bet holdem -
bets son -
bet wwts -
big bettys bingo -
bingo 770 -
bingo cafe -
bingo fantasy -
bingo for money -
bingo hall -
bingo liner -
bingo palace -
bingo reward -
break away casino -
bright right -
cash wave -
casino domain -
casino euro -
casino lucky dog -
casino pay check -
casino verano -
casino webcam -
cherry casino -
city club casino -
cyber sportsbook -
diamond gal -
earn united -
first web casino -
fortune junction -
geisha bingo -
giant vegas -
go casino -
gold betting -
grand bay -
grand bay poker -
grand casino royale -
grand riviera -
hampton casino -
hotel casino network -
internet bingo -
jackpot factory -
jackpot joy -
jackpot wheel -
jet bingo -
jupiter club -
king neptunes casino -
lady dream -
lake palace -
mahjong time -
merlins magic casino -
oasis casino -
online vegas -
only bingo -
paradise affiliates -
paradise poker -
players vegas -
play united -
poker in canada -
poker share -
portofino casino -
race track casino -
refer bingo -
refer spot -
revenue giants -
royal dice -
sail away casino -
sandpiper casino -
sci fi casino -
shark casino -
sierra star casino -
slots village -
speed bet -
the six shooter -
the star casino -
tiger gaming -
top card casino -
top line bingo -
trident lounge -
trident poker -
triple win -
ultimate bet -
vegas break casino -
vegas experts -
vegas usa -
vics bingo -
wild jack casino -
wild jack mobile -
wild jack poker -
winward casino -
400 affiliates -
9 am -
9 games -
9 poker -
absolute poker -
acf webmaster -
acropolis casinos -
atlantic lounge -
bet 365 -
bet 365 poker -
bet com -
bet fred -
bet max casino -
bet on usa -
bingo bank roll -
bingo cabin -
bingo program -
bingo promoter -
bingo royalty -
bingos -
bingos uk -
canadas best bingo -
capital bingo -
casino 365 -
casino 770 -
casino controller -
casino partouche -
casino room -
celeb poker -
cindys poker -
club euro casino -
club uk casino -
club usa casino -
cocoa casino -
crystal palace casino -
da vincis gold -
diamond deal casino -
ecard room -
el bingo -
euro poker -
festive bingo -
galactic bingo -
gaming income -
giga slot -
global player -
gran casino espana -
holdem poker -
i net bet -
inter champs -
island poker -
jackpot palace -
juegos 65 -
ladies bingo -
las seters -
las vegas usa casino -
metro casino -
my bookie -
nine -
nine am -
nine games -
nine poker -
oyna 65 -
pacific poker -
paradise 8 -
paradise eight -
pharaohs casino -
play 65 -
play and deal -
players club casino -
poker -
poker affiliate -
poker cs -
poker room -
pure slots -
purple lounge -
pyramid casino -
rock my wallet -
royal card club -
sia casino -
slot fever casino -
slot land -
slots -
slots 24 -
slots cr -
slots plus -
stars and stripes bingo -
sun palace casino -
sunset casino -
tcads -
this is vegas -
touch stone poker -
true earnings -
twin aces casino -
vc casino -
vc poker -
vegas casino online -
vegas lucky -
vegas magic -
victor chandler casino -
video poker classic -
24h poker -
24kt gold casino -
777 dragon -
7 sultans -
7 sultans poker -
aces high -
all poker casino -
aposte -
arthurian casino -
aspinalls online casino -
aztec riches casino -
aztec riches poker -
blackjack ballroom -
cameo casino -
captain cooks casino -
captain cooks poker -
caribbean gold -
casino blasters -
casino bleu blanc rouge -
casino classic -
casino coins -
casino del rio -
casino kingdom -
casino partners -
casino rewards -
casino tropez -
casino us -
cinema casino -
college poker championship -
colosseum casino -
crazy vegas casino -
crazy vegas poker -
desert dollar -
diamond casino -
english habour -
english habour poker -
english habour uk -
europa casino -
flamingo club -
fortune affiliates -
fortune lounge -
fortune room -
gaming club -
gaming club poker -
gaming club uk -

Anonymous said...

tropez casino -
vegas partner -
vegas partners -
vegas red -
vegas red casino -
vegas reds -
carnival casino -
carnivals csino -
casino fortune -
casino fortunes -
casino fortunes uk -
casino fortune uk -
casino mb -
casino pay -
casino pays -
casino us -
cd casino -
cd poker -
cd poker casino -
cd pokers -
cds poker -
club dice -
club dice casino -
club dice poker -
club dice poker casino -
club dice pokers -
club dices -
club dices casino -
club dices poker -
colosseum casino -
colosseums casino -
diamond club -
diamond clubs -
fortune casino -
fortune casino uk -
gold gate -
gold gate casino -
gold gates -
gold gates casino -
grand hotel -
grand hotel casino -
grand hotels -
grand hotels casino -
joy land -
joyland casino -
joy lands -
joylands casino -
mapau bingo -
mapau bingo casino -
mapau bingos -
mapau casino -
mapau casino de -
mapau de -
mapaus -
mapaus bingo -
mapaus de -
maple casino -
maples casino -
mb casino -
miami beach -
miami beach casino -
miami beachs -
new york casino -
new yorks casino -
ny casino -
poker show -
poker show casino -
poker shows -
prestige casino -
prestiges casino -
royal plaza -
royal plaza casino -
royal plazas -
royal plazas casino -
ruby bingo -
ruby bingo casino -
ruby bingos -
rubys bingo -
show poker -
sunny diamond -
sunny diamonds -
usa casino -
usas casino -
us casino -
vegas 7 -
vegas 7 casino -
vegas affiliate -
vegas affiliates -
vegas country -
vegas country casino -
vegas countrys -
vegas countrys casino -
vegas joker -
vegas joker casino -
vegas jokers -
vegas jokers casino -
vegas seven -
vegas seven casino -
vegas slot -
vegas slot casino -
vegas slots -
vegas slots casino -
you bingo -
you bingo casino -
you bingos -
yous bingo -
32 vegas -
32 vegas casino -
888 -
888 casino -
888 casinos -
888s casino -
ace club -
ace club casino -
ace clubs -
casino windows -
cirrus casino -
cirrus casinos -
cirruss casino -
club player -
club player casino -
club players -
club players casino -
cool cat -
cool cat casino -
cool cats -
cool cats casino -
diamond club casino -
diamond club poker -
diamond club poker casino -
diamond club pokers -
diamond clubs casino -
diamond clubs poker -
eight eight eight -
eight eight eight casino -
empire poker -
empire poker casino -
empire pokers -
empires poker -
ep -
gambling wage -
gambling wages -
gold key -
gold key casino -
gold keys -
mad bingo -
mad bingo casino -
mad bingos -
mads bingo -
magic oasis -
magic oasis casino -
magics casino -
monaco gold -
monaco gold casino -
monaco golds -
noble poker -
noble poker casino -
noble pokers -
nobles poker -
palace of chance -
palace of chance casino -
palace of chances -
party bingo -
party bingo casino -
party bingos -
party casino -
party casinos -
party poker -
party poker casino -
party pokers -
partys bingo -
partys casino -
partys poker -
peach casino -
peachs casino -
planet luck -
planet luck casino -
planet lucks -
planets luck -
play gate -
play gate casino -
play gate poker -
play gate poker casino -
play gate pokers -
play gates -
play gates casino -
play gates poker -
prestige bingo -
prestige bingo casino -
prestige bingos -
prestiges bingo -
ruby bingo casino uk -
ruby bingos uk -
ruby bingo uk -
s casino -
sport interaction -
sports interaction -
sports interactions -
star luck -
star luck casino -
star lucks -
star lucks casino -
swiss casino -
vegas 32 -
window casino -
windows casino -
3 diamond casino -
3 diamonds casino -
49 er -
49er casino -
49 ers -
49ers casino -
50 star -
50 star casino -
50 stars -
50 stars casino -
caribbean sun -
caribbean sun poker -
caribbean sun poker casino -
caribbean sun pokers -
caribbean suns -
caribbean suns poker -
car sand -
car sands -
casino france net -
casino france nets -
casino king -
casino kings -
casino las vegas -
casino profit share -
casino profit shares -
challenge casino -
challenges casino -
cs casino -
cs casinos -
fair poker -
fair poker casino -
fair pokers -
fairs poker -
fifty stars -
fifty stars casino -
golden reef -
golden reef casino -
golden reefs -
golden reefs casino -
golden riviera -
golden riviera casino -
golden riviera poker -
golden riviera poker casino -
golden riviera pokers -
golden rivieras -
golden rivieras casino -
golden rivieras poker -
grand bank -
grand bank casino -
grand banks -
king casino -
las vegas casino -
magic box -
magic box casino -
magic boxs -
magic boxs casino -
miami paradise -
miami paradise casino -
miami paradises -
miami paradises casino -
miss bingo -
miss bingo casino -
miss bingos -
music hall -
music hall casino -
music halls -
nostalgia casino -
nostalgia casinos -
nostalgias casino -
omni casino -
omni casinos -
omnis casino -
poker metro -
poker metro casino -
poker metros -
poke round -
poke round casino -
poke rounds -
rich webmaster -
rich webmasters -
river nile -
river nile casino -
river niles -
river niles casino -
slot royale -
slot royales -
slots royale -
slots royale casino -
slots royales -
spass kasino -
spass kasino casino -
sun poker -
sun poker casino -
sun pokers -
the sand -
the sands -
the sands of caribbean -
three diamonds casino -
uk casino club -
uk casino clubs -
333 poker -
black pool -
black pool bingo -
black pool bingos -
black pools -
black pools bingo -
black widow -
black widow casino -
black widows -
black widows casino -
cabaret club -
cabaret club casino -
cabaret clubs -
cabaret clubs casino -
casino onliner -
casino onliners -
fast win -
fast win casino -
fast wins -
fast wins casino -
geisha lounge -
geisha lounge casino -
geisha lounges -
gl casino -
grand ace -
grand ace casino -
grand aces -
grand aces casino -
grand banks casino -
i play tournament -
i play tournaments -
jackpot in a flash -
jackpot in a flash casino -
jackpots in a flash -
jackpots in a flash casino -
king solomon -
king solomon casino -
king solomons -
king solomons casino -
kiwi bingo -
kiwi bingo casino -
kiwi bingo casino uk -
kiwi bingos -
kiwi bingos uk -
kiwi bingo uk -
kiwi casino -
kiwi casino poker -
kiwi casino pokers -
kiwis bingo -
kiwis bingo uk -
kiwis casino -
kiwis casino poker -
luck and roll -
luck and roll casino -
luck n roll -
luck n roll casino -
lucks n rolls -
mummy gold -
mummy gold casino -
mummys gold -
mummys gold casino -
mummys golds -
onliner casino -
pigg casino -
pigg peak -
piggs casino -
piggs peak -
piggs peak casino -
piggs peaks -
poker 333 -
poker 333 casino -
pokers 333 -
ruby fortune -
ruby fortune casino -
ruby fortunes -
rubys fortune -
slot alley -
slot alleys -
slots alley -
slots alley casino -
slots alleys -
spin palace -
spin palace casino -
spin palace poker -
spin palace pokers -
spin palaces -
spin palaces poker -
spins palace -
sterling house -
sterling house casino -
sterling houses -
sterling houses casino -
tiki bingo -
tiki bingo casino -
tiki bingos -
tikis bingo -
vip profit -
vip profits -
wager junction -
wager junctions -
all star affiliate -
all star affiliates -
all stars affiliates -
bet 19 -
bet euro -
bet euros -
bet game day -
bet games day -
bet nineteen -
bet on game -
bet on games -
bet on race -
bet on races -
bets 19 -
bets euro -
bets game day -
bets on games -
bets on races -
break away -
break away casino -
break aways -
casino verano -
casino veranos -
fair deal sport -
fair deal sports -
five card charlie -
five card charlie casino -
five card charlies -
five cards charlie -
go casino -
go casinos -
good as gold -
good as gold casino -
gos casino -
grand riviera -
grand riviera casino -
grand rivieras -
online vegas -
online vegas casino -
roxy palace -
roxy palace casino -
roxy palaces -
roxy poker -
roxy poker casino -
roxy pokers -
roxys palace -
roxys poker -
sail away -
sail away casino -
sail aways -
sail aways casino -
sci fi -
sci fi casino -
sci fis -
sci fis casino -
the six shooter -
the six shooter casino -
the six shooters -
the star -
the star casino -
the stars -
the stars casino -
top card -
top card casino -
top cards -
top cards casino -
triple win -
triple win casino -
triple wins -
vegas break -
vegas break casino -
vegas breaks -
vegas breaks casino -
vegas online -
vegas splendido -
vegas splendido casino -
vegas splendidos -
verano casino -
vip -
vip casino -
vip casinos -
vip horse -
vip horses -
vip poker -
vip poker casino -
vip pokers -
vips -
vip soccer -
vip soccers -
vips poker -
vip sport -
vip sports -
wager profit -
wager profits -
wssb casino -
wssb casinos -
wssbs casino -
wssb sport -
wssb sports -
wssbs sport -
bellas vegas -
bella vegas -
bella vegas casino -
bet casino -
bet holdem -
bet holdem casino -
bet holdems -
bets casino -
bets holdem -
bets wwts -
bet wwts -
bet wwts casino -
bet wwtss -
cash wave -
cash waves -
casino lucky dog -
casino lucky dogs -
cyber sportsbook -
cyber sportsbooks -
diamond gal -
diamond gal casino -
diamond gals -
diamond gals casino -
earn unit -
earn united -
fortune junction -
fortune junction casino -
fortune junctions -
fortunes junction -
gold betting -
gold bettings -
grand bay -
grand bay casino -
grand bay poker -
grand bay poker casino -

Anonymous said...

grand bay pokers -
grand bays -
grand bays casino -
grand bays poker -
grand casino royale -
grand casino royales -
grand royale -
grand royales -
jackpots wheel -
jackpot wheel -
jackpot wheel casino -
jackpot wheels -
jupiter club -
jupiter club casino -
jupiter clubs -
jupiters club -
king neptune -
king neptune casino -
king neptunes -
king neptunes casino -
lady dream -
lady dream casino -
lady dreams -
ladys dream -
lake palace -
lake palace casino -
lake palaces -
lakes palace -
lucky dog -
lucky dog casino -
lucky dogs -
merlin magic -
merlin magics -
merlins magic -
merlins magic casino -
merlins magics -
merlins magics casino -
only bingo -
only bingo casino -
only bingos -
players vegas -
players vegas casino -
player vegas -
player vegas casino -
play unit -
play united -
play united casino -
refer spot -
refer spots -
top line -
top line bingo -
top line bingo casino -
top line bingos -
top lines -
top lines bingo -
trident lounge -
trident lounge casino -
trident lounges -
trident poker -
trident poker casino -
trident pokers -
tridents poker -
vegas usa -
vegas usa casino -
vegas usas -
all jackpot -
all jackpot casino -
all jackpots -
all jackpots casino -
all slot -
all slot casino -
all slots -
all slots casino -
aus vegas -
aus vegas casino -
bet bet -
bet bet casino -
bets bets -
big betty -
big betty bingo -
big bettys -
big bettys bingo -
big bettys bingo casino -
big bettys bingos -
bingo 777 -
bingo 777 casino -
bingo fantasy -
bingo fantasy casino -
bingo fantasys -
bingo hall -
bingo hall casino -
bingo halls -
bingos 777 -
bingo seven seven seven -
bingos fantasy -
bingos hall -
bright right -
bright rights -
casino pay check -
casino pay checks -
casinos webcam -
casino webcam -
casino webcams -
city club -
city club casino -
city clubs -
city clubs casino -
first web -
first web casino -
first webs -
first webs casino -
hotel casino network -
hotel casino networks -
jackpot factory -
jackpot factorys -
jackpot joy -
jackpot joy casino -
jackpot joys -
jackpots factory -
jackpots joy -
mahjongs time -
mahjong time -
mahjong times -
poker share -
poker share casino -
poker shares -
pokers share -
race track -
race track casino -
race tracks -
race tracks casino -
revenue giant -
revenue giants -
sand piper -
sand piper casino -
sand pipers -
sand pipers casino -
shark casino -
shark casinos -
sharks casino -
ultimate bet -
ultimate bet casino -
ultimate bets -
ultimates bet -
vegas expert -
vegas expert casino -
vegas experts -
vegas experts casino -
wild jack -
wild jack casino -
wild jack mobile -
wild jack mobile casino -
wild jack mobiles -
wild jack poker -
wild jack poker casino -
wild jack pokers -
wild jacks -
wild jacks casino -
wild jacks mobile -
wild jacks poker -
win ward -
winward casino -
winward casinos -
win wards -
winwards casino -
action gold -
action golds -
action poker -
action pokers -
actions gold -
actions poker -
affiliate lounge -
affiliate lounges -
affiliates lounge -
amber coast -
amber coast casino -
amber coasts -
amber coasts casino -
ambers coast -
apues tas -
apues tas casino -
bet son -
bet son casino -
bets son -
bets son casino -
bets sons -
bingo cafe -
bingo cafes -
bingo for money -
bingo liner -
bingo liners -
bingo palace -
bingo palace casino -
bingo palaces -
bingo reward -
bingo rewards -
bingos for money -
bingos liner -
bingos reward -
casino domain -
casino domains -
casino euro -
casino euros -
cherry casino -
cherry casinos -
cherrys casino -
domain casino -
euro casino -
geisha bingo -
geisha bingo casino -
geisha bingos -
geishas bingo/index.htm -
giants vegas -
giant vegas -
giant vegas casino -
hampton casino -
hampton casinos -
hamptons casino -
internet bingo -
internet bingo casino -
internet bingos -
internets bingo -
jet bingo -
jet bingo casino -
jet bingos -
jets bingo -
paradise affiliate -
paradise affiliates -
paradise poker -
paradise poker casino -
paradise pokers -
paradises affiliate -
paradises poker -
poker in canada -
poker in canada casino -
pokers in canada -
portofino casino -
portofino casinos -
portofinos casino -
refer bingo -
refer bingos -
refers bingo -
royal dice -
royal dice casino -
royal dices -
royals dice -
sierra star -
sierra star casino -
sierra stars -
slots village -
slots village casino -
slots villages -
slot village -
slot villages -
speed bet -
speed bet casino -
speed bets -
tiger gaming -
tiger gaming casino -
tiger gamings -
tigers gaming -
vic bingo -
vic bingos -
vics bingo -
vics bingos -
770 casino -
9 am -
9 am casino -
9 game -
9 games -
9 games casino -
9 poker -
9 poker casino -
9 pokers -
acf webmaster -
acf webmasters -
bet com -
bet on usa -
bet on usa casino -
bets com -
bets on usa -
bingo -
bingo bank roll -
bingo bank rolls -
bingo cabin -
bingo cabin casino -
bingo cabins -
bingo program -
bingo programs -
bingo royalty -
bingo royalty casino -
bingo royaltys -
bingos -
bingos cabin -
bingos casino -
bingos casino uk -
bingos program -
bingos royalty -
bingos uk -
bingo uk -
canada best -
canadas best -
canadas best bingo -
canadas best bingo casino -
canadas best bingos -
capital bingo -
capital bingo casino -
capitals bingo -
captial bingos -
casino 770 -
casino partouche -
casino partouches -
casinos 770 -
casinos partouche -
cs poker -
el bingo -
el bingo casino -
el bingos -
galactic bingo -
galactic bingos -
galactics bingo -
galatic bingo casino -
gaming income -
gaming incomes -
gran casino espana -
gran casinos espana -
index.html -
inter champ -
inter champ casino -
inter champs -
inter champs casino -
jusgos 65 -
my bookie -
my bookie casino -
my bookies -
nine -
nine am -
nine casino -
nine games -
nine poker -
nines -
oasis casino -
oasis casinos -
oyna 65 -
partouche casino -
play 65 -
play 65 casino -
plays 65 -
poker -
poker cs -
poker cs casino -
pokers -
pokers cs -
royal card -
royal card club -
royal card club casino -
royal card clubs -
royal cards -
sierra stars casino -
star and strip -
star and strip bingo -
stars and stripes -
stars and stripes bingo -
stars and stripes bingo casino -
tcads -
365 casino -
atlantic lounge -
atlantic lounges -
atlantics lounge -
bet 365 -
bet 365 casino -
bet 365 poker -
bet 365 poker casino -
bet 365 pokers -
bet max -
bet max casino -
bets 365 -
bets 365 poker -
bets max -
casino 365 -
casinos 365 -
cindy poker -
cindys poker -
cindys poker casino -
cindys pokers -
crystal palace -
crystal palace casino -
crystal palaces -
crystals palace -
diamond deal -
diamond deal casino -
diamond deals -
diamond deals casino -
festive bingo -
festive bingo casino -
festive bingos -
festives bingo -
giga slot -
giga slot casino -
giga slots -
giga slots casino -
i net bet -
i net bet casino -
i net bets -
las vegas usa -
las vegas usa casino -
play and deal -
play and deal casino -
play and deals -
plays and deals -
pure slot -
pure slots -
pure slots casino -
pures slots -
purple lounge -
purple lounge casino -
purple lounges -
purples lounge -
pyramid casino -
pyramid casinos -
pyramids casino -
rock my wallet -
rock my wallets -
slot -
slot cr -
slot fever -
slot fever casino -
slot fevers -
slot fevers casino -
slot land -
slot land casino -
slot lands -
slot plus -
slots -
slots casino -
slots cr -
slots cr casino -
slots fever -
slots fever casino -
slots land -
slots plus -
slots plus casino -
sun palace -
sun palace casino -
sun palaces -
sun palaces casino -
suns palace -
touch stone -
touch stone poker -
touch stone poker casino -
touch stone pokers -
touch stones -
touch stones poker -
true earning -
true earnings -
twin ace -
twin ace casino -
twin aces -
twin aces casino -
twins aces -
vegas casino online -
vegas casinos online -
video poker classic -
video poker classic casino -
video poker classics -
400 affiliate -
400 affiliates -
absolute poker -
absolute poker casino -
absolute pokers -
absolutes poker -
acropolis casino -
acropolis casinos -
bet fred -
bet fred casino -
bet freds -
bet maxs casino -
bets fred -
bingo promoter -
bingo promoters -
bingos promoter -
casino controller -
casino controllers -
casino room -
casino rooms -
co coa -
cocoa casino -
co coas -
cocoas casino -
da vincis gold -
da vincis gold casino -
da vincis golds -
ecard room -
ecard room casino -
ecard rooms -
ecards room -
euro poker -
euro poker casino -
euro pokers -
euros poker -
global player -
global players -
holdem poker -
holdem poker casino -
holdem pokers -
holdems poker -
island poker -
island poker casino -
island pokers -
islands poker -
ladies bingo -
ladies bingo casino -
ladies bingos -
lady bingo -
las seter -
las seter casino -
las seters -
las seters casino -
paradise 8 -
paradise 8 casino -
paradise eight -
paradise eight casino -
paradises 8 -
paradises eight -
paradises eight casino -
pharaoh casino -
pharaohs casino -
player club -
player club casino -
player clubs -
players club -
players club casino -
players clubs -
players clubs casino -
poker affiliate -
poker affiliates -
poker euro -
poker room -
poker room casino -
poker rooms -
pokers affiliate -
pokers room -
room casino -
sia casino -
sia casinos -
sias casino -
this is vegas -
this is vegas casino -
vc casino -
vc casinos -
vc poker -
vc poker casino -
vc pokers -
vcs casino -
vcs poker -
vegas lucky -
vegas lucky casino -
vegas luckys -
vegas magic -
vegas magic casino -
vegas magics -
vegas magics casino -
victor -
victor casino -
victors -
24h poker -
24h poker casino -
24h pokers -
24hs poker -
24kt gold casino -
7 sultans -
aspinalls online casino -
aztec riches casino -
aztec riches poker -
blackjack ballroom -
can bet -
canbet casino -
canbet poker -
canbet poker casino -
canbet pokers -
can bets -
canbets casino -
canbets poker -
canbet sport -
canbet sports -
canbets sports -
cans bet -
captain cooks casino -
captain cooks poker -
casino blasters -
casino classic -
casino kingdom -
casino rewards -
celeb poker -
celeb poker casino -
celeb pokers -
celebs poker -
club euro -
club euro casino -
club euros -
club euros casino -
club uk -
club uk casino -
club uks -
club uks casino -
club usa -
club usa casino -
club usas -
club usas casino -
desert dollar -
flamingo club -
fortune affiliates -
fortune room -
golden palace -
golden palace bingo -
golden palace mobile -
golden palace poker -
golden tiger casino -
golden tiger poker -
gold nugget casino -
grand online -
havana club -
isa bet -
isa bet casino -
isa bets -
isabet sports -
isas bet -
jackpot palace -
jackpot palace casino -
jackpot palaces -
jackpot palaces casino -
jackpots palace -
lucky emperor -
metro casino -
metro casinos -
metros casino -
online casino -
pacific poker -
pacific pokers -
pacifics poker -
phoenician casino -
platinum play -
play 4 free -
poker rewards -
rewards parking -
royal vegas -
seven sultans -
slot 24 -
slots 24 -

Anonymous said...

slots 24 casino -
strike it lucky casino -
sun set -
sunset casino -
sun sets -
sunsets casino -
vegas palms -
vegas villa -
victor chandler -
victor chandler casino -
victor chandlers -
victor chandlers casino -
virtual city casino -
virtual city poker -
yukon gold casino -
zodiac casino -
32 vegas -
777 dragon -
7 sultans poker -
aces high -
all poker casino -
aposte -
arthurian casino -
cameo casino -
caribbean gold -
carnival casino -
casino blue blanc rouge -
casino coins -
casino del rio -
casino fortune -
casino fortune uk -
casino mb -
casino partners -
casino pays -
casino tropez -
casino us -
cd casino -
cd poker -
cinema casino -
club dice casino -
club dice poker -
college poker championship -
colosseum casino -
crazy vegas casino -
crazy vegas poker -
diamond casino -
diamond club casino -
diamond club poker -
english habour -
english habour poker -
english habour uk -
europa casino -
fortune lounge -
gaming club -
gaming club poker -
gaming club uk -
gold gate casino -
gold key casino -
grand hotel casino -
grand prix lotto -
hammers casino -
home casino -
jackpot joy -
joyland casino -
lucky nugget -
lucky nugget casino uk -
lucky nugget poker -
magic oasis -
mapau -
mapau bingo -
mapau casino -
mapau de -
maple casino -
miami beach -
millionaire casino -
monaco gold casino -
new york casino -
orbital casino -
playgate casino -
playgate poker -
poker forum championship -
poker ocean -
poker show -
poker time -
prestige bingo -
prestige casino -
prestige poker -
refer back -
river belle -
river belle poker -
royal plaza casino -
royal vegas poker -
ruby bingo -
ruby bingo uk -
seven sultans poker -
showdown casino -
silver dollar -
silver dollar casino -
sports interaction -
sunny diamonds -
sun vegas/index.htm -
super slots -
super slots bingo -
titan poker -
usa casino -
vegas 7 casino -
vegas affiliates -
vegas country casino -
vegas joker casino -
vegas partner -
vegas red -
vegas seven casino -
vegas slot casino -
vegas towers -
windows casino -
you bingo -
3 diamonds casino -
49er casino -
50 stars casino -
888 -
888 casino -
ace club -
bet 19 -
bet euro -
bet game day -
bet on games -
bet on races -
black pool bingo -
black widow casino -
cabaret club casino -
caribbean sun poker -
car sands -
casino france net -
casino king -
casino las vegas -
casino onliner -
casino on net -
casino profit share -
challenge casino -
cirrus casino -
club player casino -
cool cat casino -
cs casino -
empire poker -
ep -
fair deal sports -
fair poker -
fast win casino -
five card charlie -
gambling wages -
geisha lounge -
gl casino -
golden reef casino -
golden riviera casino -
golden riviera poker -
good as gold casino -
grand aces -
grand banks casino -
i play tournaments -
jackpot in a flash -
jackpots in a flash -
king solomons -
kiwi bingo -
kiwi bingo uk -
kiwi casino -
kiwi casino poker -
luck n roll casino -
mad bingo -
magic box casino -
miami paradise casino -
miss bingo -
mummys gold -
music hall casino -
noble poker -
nostalgia casinos -
omni casino -
palace of chance -
party bingo -
party casino -
party poker -
peach casino -
piggs casino -
piggs peak -
planet luck -
poker 333 -
poker metro -
poke round -
rich webmaster -
river nile casino -
roxy palace -
roxy poker -
ruby fortune -
s casino -
slots alley casino -
slots royale -
spass kasino -
spin palace -
spin palace poker -
star luck casino -
sterling house casino -
sun poker -
swiss casino -
the sands -
the sands of the caribbean -
tiki bingo -
uk casino club -
vip -
vip casinos -
vip horses -
vip poker -
vip profits -
vip soccer -
vip sports -
wager junction -
wssb casino -
wssb sport -
action gold -
action poker -
affiliate lounge -
all jackpots -
all slots -
all star affiliates -
amber coast casino -
apues tas -
aus vegas -
bella vegas -
bet bet -
bet casino -
bet holdem -
bets son -
bet wwts -
big bettys bingo -
bingo 777 -
bingo cafe -
bingo fantasy -
bingo for money -
bingo hall -
bingo liner -
bingo palace -
bingo reward -
break away casino -
bright right -
cash wave -
casino domain -
casino euro -
casino lucky dog -
casino pay check -
casino verano -
casino webcam -
cherry casino -
city club casino -
cyber sportsbook -
diamond gal -
earn united -
first web casino -
fortune junction -
geisha bingo -
giant vegas -
go casino -
gold betting -
grand bay -
grand bay poker -
grand casino royale -
grand riviera -
hampton casino -
hotel casino network -
internet bingo -
jackpot factory -
jackpot joy -
jackpot wheel -
jet bingo -
jupiter club -
king neptunes casino -
lady dream -
lake palace -
mahjong time -
merlins magic casino -
online vegas -
only bingo -
paradise affiliates -
paradise poker -
players vegas -
play united -
poker in canada -
poker share -
portofino casino -
race track casino -
refer bingo -
refer spot -
revenue giants -
royal dice -
sail away casino -
sandpiper casino -
sci fi casino -
shark casino -
slots village -
speed bet -
the six shooter -
the star casino -
tiger gaming -
top card casino -
top line bingo -
trident lounge -
trident poker -
triple win -
ultimate bet -
vegas break casino -
vegas experts -
vegas splendido -
vegas usa -
vics bingo -
wager profits -
wild jack casino -
wild jack mobile -
wild jack poker -
winward casino -
400 affiliates -
9 am -
9 games -
9 poker -
absolute poker -
acf webmaster -
acropolis casinos -
atlantic lounge -
bet 365 -
bet 365 poker -
bet com -
bet fred -
bet max casino -
bet on usa -
bingo bank roll -
bingo cabin -
bingo program -
bingo promoter -
bingo royalty -
bingos -
bingos uk -
canadas best bingo -
capital bingo -
casino 365 -
casino 770 -
casino partouche -
casino room -
celeb poker -
cindys poker -
club euro casino -
club uk casino -
club usa casino -
cocoa casino -
crystal palace casino -
da vincis gold -
diamond deal casino -
ecard room -
el bingo -
euro poker -
festive bingo -
galactic bingo -
gaming income -
giga slot -
global player -
grand casino espana -
holdem poker -
i net bet -
inter champs -
island poker -
jackpot palace -
juegos 65 -
ladies bingo -
las seters -
las vegas usa casino -
metro casino -
my bookie -
nine -
nine am -
nine games -
nine poker -
oasis casino -
oyna 65 -
paradise 8 -
paradise eight -
pharaohs casino -
play 65 -
play and deal -
players club casino -
poker -
poker affiliate -
poker cs -
poker room -
pure slots -
purple lounge -
pyramid casino -
rock my wallet -
royal card club -
sia casino -
sierra star casino -
slot fever casino -
slot land -
slots -
slots 24 -
slots cr -
slots plus -
stars and stripes bingo -
sun palace casino -
sunset casino -
tcads -
this is vegas -
touch stone poker -
true earnings -
twin aces casino -
vc casino -
vc poker -
vegas casino online -
vegas lucky -
vegas magic -
victor chandler casino -
video poker classic -
24h poker -
24kt gold casino -
777 dragon -
7 sultans -
7 sultans poker -
aces high -
all poker casino -
aposte -
arthurian casino -
aspinalls online casino -
aztec riches casino -
aztec riches poker -
blackjack ballroom -
cameo casino -
can bet -
canbet casino -
canbet poker -
canbet sports -
captain cooks casino -
captain cooks poker -
caribbean gold -
casino blasters -
casino bleu blanc rouge -
casino classic -
casino coins -
casino del rio -
casino kingdom -
casino partners -
casino rewards -
casino tropez -
cinema casino -
college poker championship -
crazy vegas casino -
crazy vegas poker -
desert dollar -
diamond casino -
english habour -
english habour poker -
english habour uk -
europa casino -
flamingo club -
fortune affiliates -
fortune lounge -
fortune room -
gaming club -
gaming club poker -
gaming club uk -
golden palace -
golden palace bingo -
golden palace mobile -
golden palace poker -
golden tiger casino -
golden tiger poker -
gold nugget casino -
grand online -
grand prix lotto -
hammers casino -
havana club -
home casino -
isa bet -
jackpot city -
lucky emperor -
lucky nugget -
lucky nugget casino uk -
lucky nugget poker -
millionaire casino -
online casino -
orbital casino -
pacific poker -
phoenician casino -
platinum play -
play 4 free -
poker forum championship -
poker ocean -
poker rewards -
poker time -
refer back -
rewards parking -
river belle -
river belle poker -
royal vegas -
royal vegas poker -
seven sultans -
seven sultans poker -
showdown casino -
silver dollar -
silver dollar casino -
strike it lucky casino -
sun vegas -
super slots -
super slots bingo -
titan poker -
vegas palms -
vegas partner -
vegas red -
vegas towers -
vegas villa -
virtual city casino -
virtual city poker -
yukon gold casino -
zodiac casino -
32 vegas -
3 diamonds casino -
49er casino -
50 stars casino -
888 -
888 casino -
ace club -
caribbean sun poker -
carnival casino -
car sands -
casino fortune -
casino fortune uk -
casino france net -
casino king -
casino las vegas -
casino mb -
casino on net -
casino pays -
casino profit share -
casino us -
cd casino -
cd poker -
challenge casino -
cirrus casino -
club dice casino -
club dice poker -
club player casino -
colosseum casino -
cool cat casino -
cs casino -
diamond club casino -
diamond club poker -
empire poker -
ep -
fair poker -
fifty stars casino -
gambling wages -
golden reef casino -
golden riveria casino -
golden riviera poker -
goldgate casino -
gold key casino -
grand hotel casino -
joyland casino -
mad bingo -
magic box casino -
magic oasis -
mapau -
mapau bingo -
mapau de -
maple casino -
miami beach -
miami paradise casino -
miss bingo -
monaco gold casino -
music hall casino -
new york casino -
noble poker -
nostalgia casinos -
omni casino -
palace of chance -
party bingo -
party casino -
party poker -
peach casino -
planet luck -
playgate casino -
playgate poker -
poker metro -
poke round -
poker show -
prestige bingo -
prestige casino -
prestige poker -
rich webmaster -
river nile casino -
royal plaza casino -
ruby bingo -
ruby bingo uk -
s casino -
slots royale -
spass kasino -
sports interaction -
star luck casino -
sunny diamonds -
sun poker -
swiss casino -
the sands -
the sands of the caribbean -
uk casino club -
usa casino -
vegas 7 casino -
vegas affiliates -
vegas country casino -
vegas joker casino -
vegas seven casino -
vegas slot casino -
windows casino -
you bingo -
all star affiliates -
aus vegas -
bella vegas -
bet 19 -
bet bet -
bet casino -
bet euro -
bet game day -
bet holdem -
bet on games -
bet on races -
bet wwts -
big bettys bingo -
bingo 777 -
bingo fantasy -
black pool casino -
black widow casino -
break away casino -
cabaret club casino -
cash wave -
casino liner -
casino lucky dog -
casino pay check -
casino verano -
casino webcam -
city club casino -
cyber sportsbook -
diamond gal -
earn united -
fair deal sports -
fast win casino -

Anonymous said...

five card charlie -
fortune junction -
geisha lounge -
go casino -
gold betting -
good as gold casino -
grand aces -
grand banks casino -
grand bay -
grand bay poker -
grand casino royale -
grand riviera -
i play tournaments -
jackpots in a flash -
jackpot wheel -
jupiter club -
king netpunes casino -
king solomons -
kiwi bingo -
kiwi bingo poker -
kiwi bingo uk -
kiwi casino -
lady dream -
lake palace -
luck n roll casino -
merlins magic casino -
mummys gold -
online vegas -
only bingo -
piggs casino -
piggs peak -
players vegas -
play united -
poker 333 -
race track casino -
refer spot -
roxy palace -
roxy poker -
ruby fortune -
sail away casino -
sci fi casino -
shark casino -
slots alley casino -
spin palace -
spin palace poker -
sterling house casino -
the six shooter -
the star casino -
tiki bingo -
top card casino -
top line bingo -
trident lounge -
trident poker -
triple win -
ultimate bet -
vegas break casino -
vegas splendido -
vegas usa -
vip -
vip casinos -
vip horses -
vip poker -
vip profits -
vip soccer -
vip sports -
wager junction -
wager profits -
wssb casino -
wssb sport -
9 am -
9 games -
9 poker -
acf webmaster -
action gold -
action poker -
affiliate lounge -
all jackpots -
all slots -
amber coast casino -
apues tas -
bet 365 -
bet 365 poker -
bet com -
bet on usa -
bets son -
bingo bank roll -
bingo cabin -
bingo cafe -
bingo for money -
bingo hall -
bingo liner -
bingo palace -
bingo program -
bingo reward -
bingo royalty -
bingos -
bingos uk -
bright right -
canadas best bingo -
capital bingo -
casino 365 -
casino 770 -
casino domain -
casino euro -
casino partouche -
cherry casino -
cindys poker -
diamond deal casino -
el bingo -
festive bingo -
first web casino -
galactic bingo -
gaming income -
geisha bingo -
giant vegas -
gran casino espana -
hampton casino -
hotel casino network -
i net bet -
inter champs -
internet bingo -
jackpot factory -
jackpot joy -
jet bingo -
juegos 65 -
las vegas usa casino -
mahjong time -
my bookie -
nine -
nine am -
nine games -
nine poker -
oasis casino -
oyna 65 -
paradise affiliates -
paradise poker -
play 65 -
poker -
poker cs -
poker in canada -
poker share -
portofino casino -
pyramid casino -
refer bingo -
revenue giants -
rock my wallet -
royal card club -
royal dice -
sandpiper casino -
sierra star casino -
slots -
slots cr -
slots plus -
slots village -
speed bet -
stars and stripes bingo -
sun palace casino -
tcads -
tiger gaming -
touch stone poker -
true earnings -
twin aces casino -
vegas casino online -
vegas experts -
vics bingo -
wild jack casino -
wild jack mobile -
wild jack poker -
winward casino -
24h poker -
24kt gold casino -
400 affiliates -
7 sultans -
7 sultans poker -
absolute poker -
acropolis casinos -
aspinalls online casino -
atlantic lounge -
aztec riches casino -
aztec riches poker -
bet fred -
bet max casino -
bingo promoter -
blackjack ballroom -
can bet -
canbet casino -
canbet poker -
canbet sports -
captain cooks casino -
captain cooks poker -
casino blasters -
casino classic -
casino controller -
casino kingdom -
casino rewards -
casino room -
celeb poker -
club euro casino -
club uk casino -
club usa casino -
cocoa casino -
crystal palace casino -
da vincis gold -
desert dollar -
diamond casino -
ecard room -
euro poker -
flamingo club -
fortune affiliates -
fortune lounge -
fortune room -
giga slot -
global player -
golden palace -
golden palace bingo -
golden palace mobile -
golden palace poker -
golden tiger casino -
golden tiger poker -
grand online -
havana club -
holdem poker -
isa bet -
island poker -
jackpot palace -
ladies bingo -
las seters -
lucky emperor -
metro casino -
online casino -
pacific poker -
paradise8 -
paradise eight -
pharaohs casino -
phoenician casino -
platinum play -
play 4 free -
play and deal -
players club casino -
poker affiliate -
poker rewards -
poker room -
pure slots -
purple lounge -
rewards parking -
royal vegas -
royal vegas poker -
seven sultans -
seven sultans poker -
sia casino -
slot fever casino -
slot land -
slots 24 -
strike it lucky casino -
sunset casino -
this is vegas -
vc casino -
vc poker -
vegas lucky -
vegas magic -
vegas palms -
vegas towers -
vegas villa -
victor chandler casino -
video poker classic -
virtual city casino -
virtual city poker -
yukon gold casino -
zodiac casino -
32 vegas -
777 dragon -
888 -
888 casino -
ace club -
aces high -
all poker casino -
aposte -
arthurican casino -
cameo casino -
caribbean gold -
carnival casino -
casino bleu blanc rouge -
casino coins -
casino del rio -
casino fortune -
casino fortune uk -
casino mb -
casino on net -
casino partners -
casino pays -
casino tropez -
casino us -
cd casino -
cd poker -
cinema casino -
club dice casino -
club dice poker -
college poker championship -
colosseum casino -
crazy vegas casino -
crazy vegas poker -
diamond club casino -
diamond club poker -
english habour -
english habour poker -
english habour uk -
europa casino -
gaming club -
gaming club poker -
gaming club uk -
gold gate casino -
gold key casino -
grand hotel casino -
grand prix lotto -
hammers casino -
home casino -
jackpot joy -
joyland casino -
lucky nugget -
lucky nugget casino uk -
lucky nugget poker -
mad bingo -
magic oasis -
mapau -
mapau bingo -
mapau de -
maple casino -
miami beach -
millionaire casino -
monaco gold casino -
new york casino -
noble poker -
orbital casino -
peach casino -
playgate casino -
playgate poker -
poker forum championship -
poker ocean -
poker show -
poker time -
prestige bingo -
prestige casino -
prestige poker -
refer back -
river belle -
river belle poker -
royal plaza casino -
ruby bingo -
ruby bingo uk -
showdown casino -
silver dollar -
silver dollar casino -
sports interaction -
sunny diamonds -
sun vegas -
super slots -
super slots bingo -
titan poker -
usa casino -
vegas 7 casino -
vegas affiliates -
vegas country casino -
vegas joker casino -
vegas partner -
vegas red -
vegas seven casino -
vegas slot casino -
windows casino -
you bingo -
3 diamonds casino -
49er casino -
50 stars casino -
all star affiliates -
bet 19 -
bet euro -
bet game day -
bet on games -
bet on races -
black pool bingo -
black widow casino -
break away casino -
cabaret club casino -
caribbean sun poker -
car sands -
casino france net -
casino king -
casino las vegas -
casino onliner -
casino profit share -
casino verano -
challenge casino -
cirrus casino -
club player casino -
cool cat casino -
cs casino -
empire poker -
ep -
fair deal sports -
fair poker -
fast win casino -
five card charlie -
gambling wages -
geisha lounge -
golden reef casino -
golden riviera casino -
golden riviera poker -
good as gold casino -
grand aces -
grand banks casino -
i play tournaments -
jackpots in a flash -
king solomons -
kiwi bingo -
kiwi bingo poker -
kiwi bingo uk -
kiwi casino -
luck n roll casino -
magic box casino -
miami paradise casino -
miss bingo -
mummys gold -
music hall casino -
nostalgia casinos -
omni casino -
palace of chance -
party bingo -
party casino -
party poker -
piggs casino -
piggs peak -
planet luck -
poker 333 -
poker metro -
poke round -
rich webmaster -
river nile casino -
roxy palace -
roxy poker -
ruby fortune -
sail away casino -
s casino -
sci fi casino -
slots alley casino -
slots royale -
spass kasino -
spin palace -
spin palace poker -
star luck casino -
sterling house casino -
sun poker -
swiss casino -
the sands -
the sands of the caribbean -
three diamonds casino -
tiki bingo -
uk casino club -
vegas break casino -
vegas splendido -
vip -
vip casinos -
vip horses -
vip poker -
vip profits -
vip soccer -
vip sports -
wager junction -
wager profits -
wssb casino -
wssb sport -
action gold -
action poker -
affiliate lounge -
all jackpots -
all slots -
amber coast casino -
apues tas -
aus vegas -
bella vegas -
bet bet -
bet casino -
bet holdem -
bets son -
bet wwts -
big bettys bingo -
bingo 777 -
bingo cafe -
bingo fantasy -
bingo for money -
bingo hall -
bingo liner -
bingo palace -
bingo reward -
bright right -
cash wave -
casino domain -
casino euro -
casino lucky dog -
casino pay check -
casino webcam -
cherry casino -
city club casino -
cyber sportsbook -
diamond gal -
earn united -
first web casino -
fortune junction -
geisha bingo -
giant vegas -
go casino -
gold betting -
grand bay -
grand bay poker -
grand casino royale -
grand riviera -
hampton casino -
hotel casino network -
internet bingo -
jackpot factory -
jackpot joy -
jackpot wheel -
jet bingo -
juegos 65 -
jupiter club -
king netpunes casino -
lady dream -
lake palace -
mahjong time -
merlins magic casino -
oasis casino -
online vegas -
only bingo -
oyna 65 -
paradise affiliates -
paradise poker -
play 65 -
player vegas -
play united -
poker -
poker cs -
poker in canada -
poker share -
portofino casino -
race track casino -
refer bingo -
refer spot -
revenue giants -
royal dice -
sandpiper casino -
shark casino -
sierra star casino -
slots village -
speed bet -
tcads -
the six shooter -
the star casino -
tiger gaming -
top card casino -
top line bingo -
trident lounge -
trident poker -
triple win -
ultimate bet -
vegas experts -
vegas usa -
vics bingo -
wild jack casino -
wild jack mobile -
wild jack poker -
winward casino -
24h poker -
400 affiliates -
9 am -
9 games -
9 poker -
absolute poker -
acf webmaster -
acropolis casinos -
atlantic lounge -
bet 365 -
bet 365 poker -
bet com -
bet fred -
bet max casino -
bet on usa -
bingo bank roll -
bingo cabin -
bingo program -
bingo promoter -
bingo royalty -
bingos -
bingos uk -
canadas best bingo -
can bet -
canbet casino -
canbet poker -
canbet sports -
capital bingo -
casino 365 -
casino 770 -
casino controller -
casino partouche -
casino room -
celeb poker -
cindys poker -
club euro casino -
club uk casino -
club usa casino -
cocoa casino -
crystal palace casino -
da vincis gold -
diamond deal casino -
ecard room -
el bingo -