Tuesday, April 17, 2007

That long, long commute, and other topics

--Turns out the conservative business crowd has discovered, or may be discovering, the value of designing cities so people can choose to walk or bicycle as well as drive. We can only hope. The journal "The American: A Magazine of Ideas," published by the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank with a libertarian bent and close ties to the Bush administration, has in its April issue online such an article: "Walk This Way," by Brent M. Eastwood. Here's a link.

--And in keeping with that article, here's a lengthy but interesting look at the phenomenon of commuting from the New Yorker magazine online, "There and Back Again: The soul of the commuter," by writer Nick Paumgarten. One finding: Average travel time for Americans keeps going up. Pay special attention to the section about studies that show commuting by car makes people unhappy.

"The source of the unhappiness is not so much the commute itself as what it deprives you of," Paumgarten writes. "When you are commuting by car, you are not hanging out with the kids, sleeping with your spouse (or anyone else), playing soccer, watching soccer, coaching soccer, arguing about politics, praying in a church, or drinking in a bar. In short, you are not spending time with other people."

"... On the train or the bus, one can experience an illusion of fellowship, even if you disdain your fellow-passengers or are revolted by them. Perhaps there’s succor in inadvertent eye contact, the presence of a pretty woman, shared disgruntlement (over a delay or a spilled Pepsi), or the shuffle through the doors, which requires, on a subconscious level, an array of social compromises and collaborations."

It will make you think regardless of whether you think commuting is the last outpost of healthy American individualism or a scourge on the world or something between those two poles of opinion.

And a request from your humble blogmeistress: One of the people who sent me the link noted, "Would talk about it on your blog, but am too discouraged by the uncivil nature of remarks on both sides of issue. " We have a lively forum going, but the insults and meanness of a few drive away others who want to add their voices, too. Please be aware of that dynamic if you add comments. All opinions are welcome.

--Finally, North Carolina now has the not-so-happy distinction of one of our Tar Heel rivers making the 10 Ten Most Endangered Rivers, a list put out by American Rivers, a nonprofit group pushing for healthier rivers. The Neuse, which flows through the fast-growing Triangle area and then through hog-farm country, snags the non-honor. Here's a link to the press release. "... With more than a million people and two million hogs and woefully inadequate sewage treatment in place for both in the Neuse Basin, it is a river in deep trouble," says the announcement. If you're more interested, here's a link to the Raleigh News & Observer's article today. And here's a link to my Raleigh-based colleague Jack Betts' thoughts, on his blog, This Old State.

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

They forgot about those who carpool. I have a very enjoyable ride into and out of uptown with my husband every weekday. I get to sleep on the way (in my heated seat), leisurely drink my coffee and have a nice chat with him on the way in and out. They need to take the Independence busway (which was SUPPOSED to be a carpool lane in the first place) and MAKE it a carpool lane.......

Rod_T said...

American cities are built in such a way that you CANNOT get by without a car. Some areas in Charlotte have reasonable bus service for commuting to work. I'm fortunate enough to live in one of them; I drive anyway only because my wife can ride to work with me. It's our best talk time of the day.

Cato said...

"... On the train or the bus, one can experience an illusion of fellowship..."

In a peculiar way, maybe. The most annoying thing about my fellow bus passengers is (like so many other places) people can't use their cell phones without talking over a reasonable volume. (I leave mine at home). Ipods and the like are increasingly common. I usually read (on the way to work) and do puzzles (on the way home).

Conversations between people who don't already know one another always carry a peculiar, uneasy tone about them. It's as if people know they've stepped into an area of social uncertainty, and aren't at all sure how things are going to turn out. It's one of those unusual civil boundaries that Jane Jacobs talks about in Death and Life. But there is a certain familiarity and an odd level of trust that goes with being on the same route with the same people over time.

get real said...

OK..enough of the anti-car rhetoric.

Mary, will the light rail go from your house to your office? Or do you work from home?

Do you drive? Do you ever walk to work? Have you ridden a bicycle to work? Do you take the bus to work?

Clayj said...

On walking or biking to work: I'm all for it. (And a collective gasp rises from the Left.) I live Uptown and used to work Uptown and I enjoyed riding my bike to work on days when I knew the weather was going to be nice and I wouldn't be needing my car.

The difference, of course, is that setting it up for people to walk or bike to work is CHEAP, i.e., it costs orders of magnitude less than, say, a vastly-overpriced and certainly-to-be-underused light rail system. People can walk or bike on any hard surface; trains are absolutely limited to their rails.

Oh, and no one is taxing us so that people can walk or ride bikes.

Clayj said...

Oh, and on that whole "illusion of fellowship" thing: Trust a Leftie to put more stock in how things appear than in how they are. Perhaps you forget our state motto... Esse quam videri, Latin for "To be, rather than to seem."

Too bad no one seems to pay attention to it anymore.

Anonymous said...

Clayj...just give them some time. I'm sure gov-co will figure a way to subsidise the whole walking and biking thing. Maybe they'll implement a "measly" 1/100 cent walking transit sales tax to compliment all the other "measly" sale taxes we have (transit, state, etc)

Anonymous said...

ClayJ -

Much more is needed than simply a hard surface for people to walk and bike. Case in point: go take a leisurely stroll down W WT Harris sometime. What is needed are intelligently designed (not creationist) streets.

Such street elements include sidewalks, bike lanes, narrower travel lanes, more pedestrian crossings, and on-street parking.

You are correct, however, in that these improvements are considerably less expensive than transit. Unfortunately, many roads here are controlled by the state and good ol' NCDOT doesn't seem to think that anything without an internal combustion engine belongs on or near a street. They won't even provide shoulders to walkers, cyclists, or motorists seeking an area to pull over to change a tire or threaten their children with the old "I'll turn this car around right now" line.

For more information about (relatively) cheap streetscape improvements check out the following website:

http://www.completestreets.org

- Phil

Mary Newsom said...

A few quick responses:

First, the point is to have choices -- design the city so you can safely walk or bicycle if you can, in addition to driving. Most of us can't (like Uncle Dennis) completely give up our cars.

I work uptown (duh), and live about 4.5 miles from the office. I have walked to work -- once. Problem was that it took me an hour and 15 minutes, I needed a shower when I arrived, and clothes comfortable enough for that lengthy of a walk (sweats, athletic shoes, etc.) aren't suitable as office garb. But maybe I'll try it again, since my morning routine has changed this year due to a kid in high school.

I don't ride my bike to work. Can't figure out a safe route that doesn't involve very narrow, very busy traffic arteries. Plus the clothing issue arises.

I have taken the bus now and then, when car was in shop, or streets were icy. It's reasonably handy, though not as speedy as driving and leaves me without transport during the day, which journalists need.

I live in one of the "wedges," so no light rail for me.

Anonymous said...

rod_t, not ALL American cities are 'built in such a way that you CANNOT get by without a car.' Pre-Katrina New Orleans was a very carfree friendly city; so is NY, NY; so is Chicago; so is Portland, OR; so is Seattle, WA; so is San Francisco, CA; so is DC. I know (or, in the case of NO, KNEW) people in all those places who get/got along quite well without a car.

Seeing the source of the article certainly will put paid to those who say that non-car-friendly planning is a socialist plot, at any rate.

JAT said...

Nick Paumgarten never rode from Capitol Hill to Landover on the DC Metro wedged next to a reeking homeless guy. If he did and can still give such unbridled praise to mass commuting -- he is a better man than I.

And I can't let the myth of stress-free mass transit pass. I once worked with a woman who would absolutely break out in hives as 6pm approached and she still had stuff to do. If she got out of the office too late -- even by 5 or 10 minutes -- that could mean missing the last bus rush hour to her NoVa apartment, and add another hour to her commute.

Bottomline, during my 8 years of bus and train riding in DC, I had some good days, I had some horrible days. Most were in between.

On all those days, however, I never had a car. Neither did the vast majority -- perhaps virtually ALL -- of the other working journalists I knew in DC.

So I am extremely curious about Mary's comment that her NOT driving leaves her "without transport during the day, which journalists need."

Is it that hard to get a cab Uptown during the day? I honestly do not know. What about walking across the street to the Westin? There always seem to cabs stacked up there.

get real said...

Mary,

I'm sure you realize my questions were not to be a dig at you but rather to illustrate your commute to the rest of us. (who are unfamiliar) We already have choices.

I think the bottom line is convenience vs. necessity. Not everyone has the facilities at work to shower after a long walk or bike ride in the humidity. I used to ride almost everyday ( rain, cold and snow included ) and made due with cleaning up in the bathroom...clothes and deodorant in my backpack. My co-workers thought I was nuts.
Most people will combine neccesity with convenience and opt for the car if they have one.

No need for bike lanes if sidewalks are on your route. Most people who would commute by bike probably have a mountain bike which could handle the bumpy ride.

And I haven't met anyone who actually carpools...sure there are some who do...but the waste of that HOV lane on 77...it begins and ends with no real purpose. Who thought that was a good idea?

After reading several of the links from Litman's site to CFTE and others, it seems one of the main goals of groups like them is to get people out of their cars. Not a plot but a big desire; also of Smart Growth and New Urbanists.

I agree with rod_t that at least our culture here is based on driving a car. Hey, I love cities like New York, Charleston, San Fran, etc. where you can walk everywhere...but Charlotte will never be like that. We should stop trying to make it like that and maximize the things that do work here. ( what those are I have no idea )

Anonymous said...

HOV lanes carry numerous commuters in every city I have been to. Except Charlotte. What a sad statement that is for our city. To top it off we have people saying:
"waste of that HOV lane on 77...it begins and ends with no real purpose. Who thought that was a good idea?"

Seems to me it is a very good idea and that the people of this city are the ones to blame if the HOV sits empty. If other cities can adapt and we can't then maybe we fit the ignorant southern redneck sterotype to a T.

Life is about change. Embrace it. Take the challanges as they come. Don't cower in the safety of your cul-de-sac lifestyle.

Anonymous said...

As far as "no need for bike lanes if sidewalks are on the commute".
I am not positive on the law in Charlotte but I know where I grew up on Long Island bicycles were not legally permitted on sidewalks.
They where for pedestrians.

get real said...

The reason I say our HOV lane is a waste is that it only runs a few miles and begins NORTH of the city.

Every city I've driven in with an HOV lane had designed it properly with an adequate length to do some good.

As for your cul-de-sac comment, what are you talking about? People who live in a cul-de-sac never leave the house and drive on a highway?

Don't know what the law is here for bikes on sidewalks but the sidewalk is a lot safer than the street in rush hour...and if a cop is writing tickets for bicycles on sidewalks I would reassign him to a better function.

Anonymous said...

Get real said,

"As for your cul-de-sac comment, what are you talking about? People who live in a cul-de-sac never leave the house and drive on a highway?"

I was commenting on the "suburban" crowd around here who always seem to knock any kind of progress in this city.
I've lived in the burbs before in other cities and never experienced such resentment towards transit as I have here. None at all as a matter of fact. Everyone embraced it wether they used it daily or only once in awhile. Of course I am guessing because no one ever talked about it anywhere but here. It was a non issue. Sort of like having plumbing in your bathroom.
Outhouse anyone ?
What gives with you people ? You are truly in a league of your own. Did your great, great, great grandpa resist riding on the new concept of a horse and carriage as well ?
I would laugh myself to sleep over this topic, except it really isn't funny anymore. It's an embarrassment for this city. Hopefully you people hide in the wood work when my friends and family come to visit.
And no, I am not simply moving. I've been here 20 years. A bunch has changed for the better and will continue to do so. I like it here besides the few backward people I have come across. I will stay as well as will others and before you know it PROGRESS.
You people will slowly disappear.

get real said...

Well, I've only been here a few years but I've met lots of people from suburbs who want light rail. Most of my friends who live out by McKee and Providence would love to have a train ride into town. Others that live up 77 near the mall ( exit 16 I think ) want the train too.

People may be indifferent because ( as in Mary's case also ) the train simply doesn't go anywhere near them or it is too inconvenient to drive to a station to take it so they really don't care. That is not the same as not wanting progress.

I do agree with you that there is a "Charlotte" resistance to some things. I don't see it as a suburb vs. city or Southern vs. Northern.
Some I've met here that you would think are the most die hard rednecks and backward folk are actually quite progressive.

Cities evolve at different rates. Charlotte has alot of catching up to do with some but should not worry about cath up as much as just being a great city in it's own right. I love it here.

Anonymous said...

There have been few times in the past year that I have left the uptown and surrounding areas and ventured into the burbs. But every single time I did I have heard very hostile and negative conversations at restaurants about the light rail. I would guess it has been about 6 times in the past year and like I said, every single time I hear the comments.
That is where I guess I am getting my attitude about the Charlotte burbs from.

Anonymous said...

Just a couple of questions I have.
Why does everyone need an office downtown? It is just a location.

Why don't businesses spread out around the city and then people can move close to where they work? Traffic would be a non-issue.

Thad

Nawdry said...

get real (2007/04/18) said:

>>
After reading several of the links from Litman's site to CFTE and others, it seems one of the main goals of groups like them is to get people out of their cars. Not a
plot but a big desire; also of Smart Growth and New Urbanists.
I agree with rod_t that at least our culture here is based on driving a car. Hey, I love cities like New York, Charleston, San Fran, etc. where you can walk
everywhere...but Charlotte will never be like that. We should stop trying to make it like that and maximize the things that do work here.
<<


First, I'll point out that while NYC and SF are fairly walkable cities, you don"t "walk everywhere" - you get there usually by a combination of public transit and walking.

Second, in NYC particularly, the transit system is pervasive enough, with sufficient connectivity, to enable you to get around the main city fairly well. Amazingly, this is also true of a city like ... Portland, even with much less rail transit (although its light rail interurban MAX line and streetcar are excellent).

In other cities, like Charlotte, today, yes, you pretty much must have a car. Rail transit was ripped out long ago, a vast roadway network (including freeways) was installed at taxpayer expense, and development (assisted by federal urban and housing policies) has promoted a sprawl pattern which has virtually enforced dependency on the private motor vehicle.

This must change - modern urban development and global changes cannot sustain this. That's why there is now so much interest among transportation policymakers in improving and expanding public transportation and restructuring urban development patterns. Charlotte is far from alone in this respect.

Meanwhile, yes, we have cities like Charlotte currently oriented around sprawl, roadways, and cars. The South Line LRT and other innovations represent efforts - small steps, really - to transition away from this lifestyle and this pattern. Rail is particularly effective in this because rail service is attractive to the public, rail is generally less costly in unit cost and in responding to increasing demand, and the infrastructure is a visible and permanent enough investment to attract private development - thus promoting the highly desirable goal of transit-oriented (and transit-adjacent) development.

I agree that Charlotte will never be "like New York" - but cities like Portland, and even Denver and Salt Lake City, are not bad models.

To achieve a more sustainable urban form and mobility lifestyle, relatively small steps (and maybe some leaps) will be necessary. Features like park & ride help bridge the gap between current dependency on motor vehicles in lower-density areas (like suburbs and exurbs). Meanwhile, creating spot locations of higher density and activity concentrations (such as is happening in Charlotte and other cities) can reinforce travel corridors to increase the feasibility of more higher-level transit services, such as rail (e.g., streetcars) - thus bringing good transit closer and closer to more neighborhoods.

It has to start somewhere, and so far Charlotte has gone just past the starting line.

LH

Rick said...

nawdry,

Good to have you back. How's the weather down there in far off Austin, TX?

Since you are our resident traveling rail expert and transit employee, I thought I'd ask a question of you.

I was speaking to one of our local (meaning a Charlotte resident) rail activists for the East Side about some of the reasons why the East Side was bumped to the back of the line. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but our low income areas that were slated for street cars were recently bumped down the list of transit corridor projects in favor of ones that go to wealthier areas.

He provided me with some very interesting information. I was wondering if you could verify it for me.

This gentleman was telling me that as part of the Federal guidlines for getting fed funding for a rail project, one of the criteria was the expected percentage increase in mass transit usage in the corridor. Not raw numbers of train riders mind you, but expected percentage increase in overall mass transit usage.

Can you tell me if that is correct?

Anonymous said...

And there, Mary, you have it. The reason why this nonsense won't work.

"I work uptown...it took me an hour and 15 minutes, I needed a shower when I arrived, and clothes comfortable enough for that lengthy of a walk (sweats, athletic shoes, etc.) aren't suitable as office garb."

"I don't ride my bike to work. Can't figure out a safe route that doesn't involve very narrow, very busy traffic arteries. Plus the clothing issue arises."

"I have taken the bus now and then, when car was in shop, or streets were icy. It's reasonably handy, though not as speedy as driving and leaves me without transport during the day, which" - fill in the blank of every job description in the world - "need."

"I live in one of the "wedges," so no light rail for me."

You just made the case AGAINST everything you promote. Nice job!

Uncle Dennis said...

Just a quick post regarding the "Streetcar" issue as opposed to "Light Rail".

They come from two different buckets of money, and have different requirements / restrictions.

My understanding is that while we can proceed with the laying of the track, there is little or no money for cars.

Methinks that if the current trolleys find co-habitation with light rail to be difficult, the current trolleys will begin the service as "Streetcars" along the Trade Street corridor.

UD

Clayj said...

Anon @ 9:20 PM: Better be careful with your use of logic there... someone might accuse you of being insensitive to the needs of others by demonstrating the inconvenience of using mass transit.

And Mary, unless you live in the South Corridor, I feel safe in predicting that you will never have light rail, wedge or no. The Feds (and therefore the State of NC, as well) aren't going to back any more rail lines in Charlotte. Bank on it.

Anonymous said...

Mary,

Here's some ideas. If you live close enough to walk or bike but you need a shower in the summer than you can.

1. Only walk or bike in the spring/fall

2. Join the YMCA and work out a little / shower / head to work. Same on return trip.

3. All buses have bike racks. Bike to the stop, then bus it the rest of the way.

Excuses, excuses. Everyone's got them. I used to as well. I live uptown but work down off of Arrowood. I can bus it to and from. There's got to be a way for you to as well. Dig deep, check into it. I bet there is a way.

Anonymous said...

Mary,
Get an electric scooter. They are the newest rage (except for in Charlotte - DUH )

Typically about $3,000 and you can get them that go 30-45 mph and a range of 40 - 75 miles on a single 4 hour charge.
Not bad. Zero pollution, Zero gas, cheap to operate. If you get a 30 mph one you also have no need to insure it either.

There are ways. Especially since you live so close to work.

Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed because it linked to malicious content. Learn more.

Uncle Dennis said...

Or, better yet, get a scooter, like my KYMCO, from Vespa Charlotte over on Worthington Avenue. You can get one for about $1,500 and get ready for a quarterly trip to the gas station!

I don't use it a lot, but it is fun, and when pressed for time, it's handy.

UD

Anonymous said...

To the poster who thinks electric scooters have no pollution.
Unless you have your own clean power station set up in your backyard (or patio overlooking the city), that power you use comes from where? coal-fired plants, nuclear power plants perhaps? If everyone use one of these electric scooters, what is going to generate the electrical power needed for them? When hugo hit a handful of years ago- wonder how we all would have traveled the city until power was restored?
Just a few points to ponder.

Thad

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Besides Thad, it was a suggestion to Mary for her work commute. No one ever said it would totally replace her car. I have a Prius as a backup for long distance like the beach or mountains, I take the bus to work and have the electric scooter, bicycle and my damn feet for around town. Plenty of options and choices out there that don't involve a 15 mpg polluting hog.
It's not all about mpg. It's also about polluting less.
Get with it. You jargon is old, outdated and no one listens to it anymore.

Pete said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

to anonymous with a small vocabulary,
Your foldout solar panels- do they work for the guy on night shift? When cloudy? How's that scooter in the rain? I have a co-worker, motorcycle rider, ran off the road a little and wrecked. Broken collar bone, bruised hip. I hit same rut in my vehicle and completely came away unscratched.
If you truley want to clean up the air from exhaust, you should follow your own advice and get rid of your car and never drive a gas power vehicle. By the way, my minivan gets more than 15 mpg (I think it is almost 20mpg).

Thad

Anonymous said...

I'm going for a drink after work at the Double Door. I'll buy you a drink if you are old enough, and we can discuss like adults (which i can see may be difficult for you) any subject you like. I'm waering a yellow work shirt and blujeans.

Thad

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Actually, Thad is short for my middle name. So you are correct in that one instance. A blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, okay Thad, I'll go meet you at the D D and suck in the smoke from about 100 cig butts.
Just the type of place I would expect you to hang at. What a dive.
As far as the broken collar bone goes, I wasn't talking about long distance commutes. I was talking about an option for Mary for her 4 mile trek into town.
For someone who cares so much about his health and well being it's hilarious that you are hanging at the smoke clouded DD.
I'll pass and go enjoy an incredible dinner out with my wife followed by a night at the theater.
You go suck that smoke cloud.
That 20 mpg for a mini van. Woooo Hoooooo !
Cool ride by the way Thad.
The only reason I get in my hybrid (as stated before) is for a beach or mountain trip.
My 50 mpg and up and near zero emissions are leaps and bounds above your mini van.
My most recent long distance drive was to D.C. and I got 64 mpg on that trek.
It was also just on the new yesterday that Georgia is having trouble inspecting the Prius. Seems they can't get it to emit enough pollution to get a reading on their equipment. They may become exempt from the inspection process altogether.

Give it up girls. It's a lost cause and YOU lost.

Anonymous said...

Ogburn

Anonymous said...

Oh, the name calling, the high faluting rhetoric, the holier than thou attitude (include me in that).

Guys and Gals please:

What is this personal offense stuff?

So we all disagree with each other, that's life.

Why else do we have these 'discussions' except to discuss differences?

If we all had the same opinions why would we bother?

So don't get yourselves in an uproar, try to keep from insulting the other person - you first Nawdry - and bring the level of discussion a bit higher than I said you said.

My daughter Muriel - 13 - would find it fits right in at her school.

However, it is generally more entertaining than tv or talk radio.

And Cato, it is not an illusion of fellowship, it is fellowship. It may be an illusion of friendship.

Lewis

Anonymous said...

Anon 4/20/2007 05:08:00 PM...

It appears that you have substantial financial resources to live on. Most citizens do not have the financial backing to have a nice Prius hybrid for occassional rides to the beach or mountains.

As such, I would think you would have absolutely no problem paying for the true and complete cost of your transit ride. So, please stuff an extra Lincoln into the fair box on your next bus ride. I'm not sure I want to continue to pad your comfortable lifestyle.

Anonymous said...

Lewis,
I agree with the name calling but I place it on the level of my 6 yr old and liberals are supposed to be the tolerant ones?
Anon, you assume alot. I don't hang out out the DD. It is halfway between my friends house and mine. Had a couple of drinks and left. Not any more smoke than most bars anywhere in this town.
All I asked were a few simple questions. What type of power plants should be constructed for all the new electrical cars/scooters?
My co-worker on the motorcycle rides about twice a month so your assumption again is wrong. Do wreck only occur on long distance commutes? I don't think so.
While you were travling in your hybrid to the big cities, I took my family (wife and 4 kids) camping at one of our state parks. Didn't use any gas or electricity for 4 days. As far as the minivan comment, it was meant to be factitious. I drive a company car, my wife drives the mini, and I have a mazda protege- about 32 mpg that i drive.

Your comment:
"Besides Thad, it was a suggestion to Mary for her work commute. No one ever said it would totally replace her car. I have a Prius as a backup for long distance like the beach or mountains, I take the bus to work and have the electric scooter, bicycle and my damn feet for around town. Plenty of options and choices out there that don't involve a 15 mpg polluting hog."

With all these plethera of options-why do we need a train?

Thad

Anonymous said...

Thad, the answer is obvious.

A long time friend of mine, Joel Carter, said about politics, and LTR is politics at its core, Follow the Money.

Ask the questions, who is making money off this, and when, if you ever, get the answers, you will have yours.

Lewis

Anonymous said...

Yeah, Joel Carter never called anybody names, did he Lewis?

Ken Rogers said...

Thad...you made an subtle, yet very important point in the last paragraph of your post: there are truly a multitude ways to do things.

The free market is an extremely efficient way to deliver goods and services to consumers. It links willing customers and willing suppliers together and provides what both want: the customer wants a good or service and values it to a certain $ cost, the supplier provides it at the desired cost and earns a profit that perpetuates its business.

The example of the solar panels to charge a Vespa is an excellent example.

The reverse tends to be true as well. Everyone is overheated about hybrid vehicles. Everyone wonders why they are not a larger part of the total vehicle population. It's quite simple: customers who want them are not willing to pay the increased price (ie: low value to them) for hybrid technologies; suppliers are not willing to provide hybrids at the customer's desired price since they will not profit. Thus, low market penetration.

LTR is another excellent example. Again, we have a customer who is desiring to have it and a free market who can provide it. So why is it a government enterprise? Because the free market cannot provide LTR at a cost that the customer desires after considering the entire package (investment + operating cost).

This makes liberals upset and they demand that it be provided by an inefficient government enterprise. They make LTR a government enterprise and subsidise losses via force of law (ie: taxes). As you know, you get more of anything subsidized, so LTR will continue to increase and so too will subsidies and tax payers cost. A viscious cycle.

Our only alternative to halt this mess is repeal the 1/2 cent sales tax and re-evaluate LTR based on customer wants and the ability to provide them at a reasonable cost (investment + operating).

Uncle Dennis said...

A project like light rail is not something that someone can decide to do, and have it immediately. The initial planning started when the sales tax 1/2 cent was enacted in 1998, 9 years from the time the first train runs.

Also, the initial line was relatively inplace, with few modifications or acquisitions to make.

If our government waited until rail was clamored for, it would be too late. If we tried to drive rail into highly populated areas, the costs would totally dwarf anything we now see.

By defining the lines, and encouraging development to follow, we are creating those high density areas needed to sustain growth.

Furthermore, the plan calls for feeder lines to service the rail line. As this happens, fewer bussses will be needed to come into an already congested Downtown area, and strengthening the ability to move large quantities of people from point A to point B as Lewis identified as a desired goal for a rail line.

UD

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Yeah, Joel Carter never called anybody names, did he Lewis?

4/22/2007 11:14:00 PM

If he participates in this blog I am not aware of it.

Lewis

Anonymous said...

"Seems to me it is a very good idea and that the people of this city are the ones to blame if the HOV sits empty."

I commute on I-77 every day and I don't think I've ever seen the HOV lane empty. However, most of the time, there is only one person in the car that zips past in that lane going at least 85.

Anonymous said...

ANAON 4/21/2007 09:29:00 AM said:

It appears that you have substantial financial resources to live on. Most citizens do not have the financial backing to have a nice Prius hybrid for occassional rides to the beach or mountains.
As such, I would think you would have absolutely no problem paying for the true and complete cost of your transit ride. So, please stuff an extra Lincoln into the fair box on your next bus ride. I'm not sure I want to continue to pad your comfortable lifestyle.


I would have zero problems with stuffing some extra cash in the fare slot as long as you start opening your wallet wider for the things you use and I do not. Schools maybe ? Endless miles of roads to your cul-de-sac ?
Comon', open that wallet and put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is.

Anonymous said...

to anonymous,
As far as things you pay for and don't think you use (schools), that is fine as long as when you do anything, anyone who went to school should not help you in any way. From the doctors, lawyers, police, firemen, armed forces, electricians, waiters, lawn guys, grocery employees, gas station attendents, cashiers (i hope they have some schooling) and so many more since you have not paid into it. As for roads in the neighborhoods you so abhore, how will all these people get from their homes to help everyone else out? Goods ,used by everyone, are transported on roads unless of course you live in a self-sustaining enclave which i doubt you do. Roads are paid and maintained by taxes if they would be used for their intended use instead of being diverted to other things.

And again, you will not act unless others do first? Liberals all followers and no leaders.

Thad

Anonymous said...

Thad,
I can't even begin to respond to you. It's a complete and total waste of time and energy. You are the typical backward, Southern Republican, hater of Liberals and absolutely ANYONE different than you.
Totally intolerant. Totally hypocritical.
I on the other hand wish people like you would wake up but also realize it's your decision. All I can do is vote for the people I feel will do what I consider right.

All I will allow myself to respond to today is your last comment of "Liberals all followers and no leaders".
Thad, Bud, almighty, highly educated one,
I am pro environment. I recycle, hybrid, mass transit, walk, bicycle, use all energy star appliances and bulbs, live in a 1,100 sq. ft. space as to reduce my need for power and I even buy carbon credits on my Duke Power bill to help offset the little ($55/month) electric bill that I do have.
So how in the world you Republicans come up with
this "Liberals all followers and no leaders" crap ALL THE TIME is totally beyond me and a total waste of my energy trying to explain any of this to you or others like you.
It's much easier to do what I feel is best for me and if anyone else is interested in the options I have chosen I can help explain to them how simple it is and may work for them as well.

Hmmnnn Thad, sort of back to where we started, huh ?
Giving Mary suggestions. Could that be considered a "Liberal that's a leader" ?

Go back to sleep. Maybe when you wake up rested you wont hate your life so much.

Anonymous said...

Love my life, - in my big house with my big yard on my quiet cul-de-sac and with a great job that I drive 20minutes each way to get to!!

Your comment i was responding to-
"I would have zero problems with stuffing some extra cash in the fare slot as long as you start opening your wallet wider for the things you use and I do not. Schools maybe ? Endless miles of roads to your cul-de-sac ?
Comon', open that wallet and put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is. "
YOU said you would start after me.
A leader would create a better car, a leader would get people together to protest for/against something- not just posting on blogs, a leader would write articles on how to save energy, a leader would not say what a waste of time and energy with a reponse to something someone said or wrote and then procede to do both. Totally hilarious!!
Suggestions for Mary, seems she gets to work the same way I do- by car, as you stated, there are many option and that is the one Mary and I choose.
Want more choices- how about a nice helicopter ride from Pineville to Downtown? everyone would like that and also benefit from it.
Enjoy your evening- anon- I'm heading home- jamming to my music and talking as loud as i wish on my phone by the time I get home, I'm refreshed and ready for what the evening has in store.
Take care and God Bless you anon and check your blood pressure- i'm worried!
Thad

Anonymous said...

I don't believe in god Thad. So you see, really no need to go any further in any conversations with you.

Kind of pointless if you know what I mean.
Oh yeah.......you don't.

Anonymous said...

By the way Thad, I have been home since 4:00, worked out and am ready to enjoy a nice dinner, beer and sunset.

Cheers

Anonymous said...

Again anon,
You keep saying your not going to
"go any further in any conversations with you.

Kind of pointless if you know what I mean.
Oh yeah.......you don't."
Yet 5 minutes later you are responding again. Like I said, hilarious. I guess your not going to respond to this one either. So I'm going to ask the question anyway- Do you think everyone should drive a electric car/scooter, ride trains/busses, live in a highrise with a bunch of other people or only along transit lines, not have a personal garden, not play catch with your kids outside the back door so when supper is called you can drop the ball and run straight inside? I could go on but we each enjoy our own lives as we choose to live it. Please don't judge mine. Last thing, we sign a name so others know to certain extent who they are. There are so many anon's it hard to keep you guys straight.

Thad

Anonymous said...

Thad,
I totally feel everyone should be able to choose whatever lifestyle is best for them. If you want the burbs, fine. I've done it before as well, it's not for me.
All I am saying is that I think government should be more responsible and drastically increase the fuel economy requirements in vehicles, invest in new technologies for alternative fuels and energy sources and offer various cleaner mass transit options.
Whether we need to go 1 mile or 30 miles to get from point A to B we just need to tread lighter on the planet. It's the only one we have got. It's the only one your kids have got. When did it become so cool to not give a crap about the planet ?
I guess that's what gets me all stirred up and I go off at times. I wouldn't classify myself as a Liberal. I am a registered Democrat but have voted for the other party as well in the past. I can cross the lines. It's not always black and white.
I try to do what I feel is right.
I tread as light as I can and reduce my impact as much as I can with the options that are available to me in Charlotte. By all means if my developer offered solar panels on my condo for another $15,000 I would pay it. Sure it may take 20 years to break even with the utility bills but sometimes it's not just about the money. At least for me. I know I could have bought a car that got 35 mpg for $10k less than my Prius. I know financially it would have been wiser. But I wanted to support something that I feel we desperately need. A change. If people didn't support this new technology then the car manufacturers would have abandoned it. It will only lead to new R & D and better technologies down the road.
I notice more and more hybrids on the road everyday in Charlotte. It's still a far, far, far cry from what you see in California or Washington state but it's a start. I am sure you know they also have suv's and soon a mini van as well ?
I am even contemplating having this company out of California ( now adding outlets all over the country) redo the batteries and computer chip in my car to allow it to get 200 mpg. It costs $12,000. Yeah, I know, big waste of money. But people spend that on rims for their jacked up SUV's. What's the difference. It would allow me to reduce my dependence on oil. Instead of needing 160 gallons a year I would be down to about 40 per year.
It's also the same reason I buy carbon credits toward alternative energy research and purchase only energy star products. Just to show support. That people want this change.
I guess that's my little bit of contribution. Yes, I can afford it. That helps, I know. But there are plenty others out there that cannot and they choose to live this lifestyle and do without in some other areas. I know a few right here in Charlotte.
They opted for the hybrid and went out to dinner a little less. But that's their choice.
Bottom line Thad, I was just offering suggestions to Mary if she "really" wanted to do this transit thing. That's all.
I felt attacked as do most people with the same feelings as me who stumble along this post. We are just trying to do what we feel is right. Taxes go to a ton of various projects. It cannot all go to everything that suits me. Just as it cannot go to everything that suits just you. I know we need schools and roads. Just as I know we need mass cleaner transit and new energy technologies.
Give and take. That's the only way it will ever work.

Just as a side note, check this out.
http://www.theaircar.com
This is reality today. They are currently getting ready to start mass producing these urban cars. No, they aren't for everyone. But it's a start in the right direction.

Have a nice day.

Mary Newsom said...

My word. I go on to other, newer topics and you all just keep on commenting. I'm glad you're having fun (of a sort) but please, no more words ending in ----hole. Unless it's astrophysics and involves wormholes. OK? Don't make me have to monitor all the comments before they get posted. That will slow down the discussion, since -- stop the presses! -- I have plenty of other things I have to do with my time.

And even though it isn't obscene, please, cease calling people "morons" because it's insulting and is keeping many other voices from wanting to post their opinions here.

Oops, I'm a fan of the Double Door. It's a one-of-a-kind spot of which I have fond memories.

To respond to some comments:
-- Yes, I'm feeling guilty about not taking the bus more.

-- Just because I live in a part of town unlikely to get light rail doesn't mean I don't want anyone else to have it, either.

-- Uncle Dennis is right about the streetcar money and light rail money coming from different federal funds.

The light rail issue is, at heart, whether people think that's a prudent use of public money. I do. Charlotte is going to be a lot bigger in 30 years than it is now, and a transit system will be: A. badly needed and B. light years more expensive to build then. In my opinion.

Anonymous said...

Bicycling on the sidewalk is actually more dangerous than using the street, for various reasons. Also, many cities (Charlotte among them, I think, although if I am wrong please correct me) have ordinances forbidding adults from riding on the sidewalks, which are for pedestrians.

By the laws of all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, bicycles are vehicles and have as much right to be on the streets as cars; cyclists are also bound by the same rules of the road as automobiles are.

This website might be of interest:
http://www.johnforester.com/

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
Yeah, Joel Carter never called anybody names, did he Lewis?

4/22/2007 11:14:00 PM

If he participates in this blog I am not aware of it.

Lewis "

Yep lewis, Joel carter does not post on this blog, but 10 years ago, he was spewing hateful messages behind the dais of the County Commission meetings. Luckily, the citizenry put a stop to that after one term. Be careful lewis. you are known by the company you keep.

Anonymous said...

You kids don't make me come back there!

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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exploitd black teens -
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her first anal sex -
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just adult movies -
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