Tuesday, June 19, 2007

Kids: How much freedom do they need?

This follows up on the previous posting which included one father's musing about teens living in suburban or urban neighborhoods, and what the suburban-reared kids may be missing. A report in the U.K. speculates that the mental health of modern-day kids is at risk because they lack the freedom to explore the natural world that their grandparents had. Here's the top of the article from the Daily Mail of London:

When George Thomas was eight he walked everywhere.

It was 1926 and his parents were unable to afford the fare for a tram, let alone the cost of a bike, and he regularly walked six miles to his favourite fishing haunt without adult supervision.

Fast forward to 2007 and Mr Thomas's eight-year-old great-grandson Edward enjoys none of that freedom. He is driven the few minutes to school, is taken by car to a safe place to ride his bike and can roam no more than 300 yards from home.

Even if he wanted to play outdoors, none of his friends strays from their home or garden unsupervised.

The contrast between Edward and George's childhoods is highlighted in a report which warns that the mental health of 21st-century children is at risk because they are missing out on the exposure to the natural world enjoyed by past generations.

Here's a link to the full article.

As a parent, I've struggled -- as I'm sure many of you have -- with figuring out where to land on the freedom-versus-safety spectrum. At what age do you let a child walk to a neighbor's house alone? When should you let a child go for a walk in the neighborhood for exercise? What about riding a bicycle?

I have a friend, a native Charlottean whose family got its land from King George III before the revolution. She grew up near Commonwealth and Central avenues, in the 1950s and 1960s. She remembers riding her bicycle over to the Coliseum on Independence (now Cricket Arena) to go ice skating. That was their hangout, she says. Or they would take a bus to go uptown to a movie. Would any parent today let a kid do that? If so, at what age? When our daughter was 11 or 12 I let her walk or take the Gold Rush shuttle from Discovery Place or the Main Library to The Charlotte Observer building, seven or eight blocks away.

I know other parents who'd be shocked to think of such a thing. And even others who'd let kids do that at a younger age.

It's one of the little-mentioned differences found in cities with strong public transportation systems: Teens and preteens have more freedom to move around the city without having to depend on parents chauffeuring them.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Aaaaaaand the real point of the post hits in the final paragraph: Promoting mass transit.

When I was growing up, I didn't have to be chauffeured around by my parents too much, because of two things: My legs, and my bicycle. (OK, that's technically three things.) If I wanted to go anywhere within several miles of home, I was expected to walk or to ride my bike, as long as the weather allowed. I used to walk or ride everywhere, and I felt safe doing so (except for the one time when I fell off my bike into a patch of nettles... not fun). The idea of riding a bus anywhere except to and from school was never even considered.

Of course, the world is a more dangerous place now. Within an urban environment like Charlotte or Atlanta or NYC, I'd be hesistant to let my kids just wander around, especially near the major thoroughfares, and I would insist that they never be alone outside of my neighborhood. I don't think I'd be very keen on letting them ride the bus around town; if they wanted to go to the mall, or to the movies, or to soccer practice, I'd drive them myself or have another parent do so. This isn't about ease of use or convenience; this is about protecting your kids from potential harm. Buses and trains do not lessen that possibility at all. (I refer to a recent case in St. Louis where a mass transit security guard looked on as people were mugged. Good job there.)

Ironically, it's the cul de sac neighborhoods that you constantly deride that are the safest environment for kids to play in and to run about freely. Truly urban settings like Uptown Charlotte are really not suited for kids, and that's one reason why you don't find many children living Uptown.

Anonymous said...

Obviously the previous poster didn't grow up in an urban setting like I did, and we did just fine riding the bus, the train, and walking around the neighborhood. I feel like I am a much stronger, independent person because of it. I'm not saying either way is better than the other, I just think people give "the city" a bad rep.

Anonymous said...

I was 4-5 I live in a subdivision in suburban San Antonio. I was able to roam around my cul-de-sac neighborhood with neighbors of similar and older ages. We wern't allowed to cross the street early on, so we simply took the long way around on the cul-de-sac sidewalks. That is one reason you will never hear me complain about cul-de-sac neighborhoods. They provide a lot of freedom for somebody that age.

I was about 11 when my mom let me ride the subways into Boston. I knew the map, and what parts of town not to go into. Considering that the downtown touristy area was all I wanted to be near at that age, safety was never an issue. Roxbury and Dorchester were not on my agenda. My cousins lived in a nearby town, and rode the subways all the time at that age. Boston was tougher then than Charlotte is now, yet we all had street smarts and nothing bad ever happened to us.

Both instances saved our parents the burden of having to drive us all around, and it provided us the opportunity to grow up and gain some independence. I would love nothing more than to allow my future kids the same opportunities.

Danimal

Anonymous said...

Too bad there's so few places in uptown Charlotte where people can live. (Oh yeah, I forgot, they're too busy expanding their boundaries via annexation)

It's humorous to think somehow that its the suburbs that have ruined our kids.

Its not for a lack of places to explore or things to do in the suburbs that has our kids fat and lethargic.

Limit the use of TV, computers and video games and you'll find there's lots more opportunities in the suburbs to explore things safely and to get healthy exercixe/play than there is in the city.

Not saying anything is wrong with roaming in the city, that's cool too. But your opportunity to play or exercise is better in the burbs.

Anonymous said...

Safety for children has become ridiculous.

When my children were 10 and less they played tag on the train in Freedom Park. The chances to fall were existent, so. What was more interesting were the fathers with their young children on the train, following them around like safety monitors, being sure to catch them or stop them from doing anything unsafe.

Children need to run and climb and play with risks. They need to learn to deal with the real world.

Anonymous said...

My 12 year old son rides his bike all over Ballantyne. StoneCrest, Ballantyne Village, the Morrison YMCA, Community House Middle School.

Great sidewalks setback from the road a good distance. Many sidestreets with no traffic. Plenty of safe and well designed crosswalks.

His friends hangouts are the bookstore cafe or the movie theater or the YMCA pool this summer.

In my opinion that is a perfectly safe and typical lifestyle for a kid to growup in. I am not sure what you are complaining about regarding suburbia.

All of the rants against suburbia seem somewhat contrived and detached from reality.

Anonymous said...

Good grief another mass transit plug at the end of this article. If transit is the cure for everything why is Pam Syfert so fat?

Anonymous said...

I grew up in the suburbs and had a pony on a small lot next to our house. I rode my pony to my friends houses who lived in typical suburban subdivisions. They'd bike, I'd trot. It was fun.

Anonymous said...

I grew up in Charlotte. We used to walk/ride bikes to freedom park and Park Rd shopping center, Nature museum, creeks, etc. from the ages of 8-15.

When I was 10 years old on the way home from Freedom Park, with my two brothers (one older, one younger), we stopped to play in the creek and we were mugged. Luckily we were only beat up and not killed.

Today, things probably would have gone differently. Some people don't care about life. Their own or others.

In my gated community, I feel safer when my kids are playing in our yard, neighbors yard, walking/riding to the parks, pool, walking trails, tennis courts, golf course or marina.

Don't know many places to ride a bike downtown safely.

Danimal- I like to hear what you say on this matter AFTER you have children. It is easy to say what you would do, but different when the reality hits.

Thad

Anonymous said...

I live in the "urban" part of town and have no problem letting my child play unsupervised outside. Believe it or not, the middle of town is not as big, bad and scary as it's made out to be (see a couple of posts above). My child can walk to the store to pick up a candy bar, go play around the park if he gets bored, or just ride his bike or skateboard up and down the sidewalk and see what's going on down the street. He has the common sense not to speak to people he doesn't know, and he knows ALL our neighbors so it's rare that he's truly alone outside.

This isn't just a matter of location, it's a matter of neighborhood design. Poorly-designed suburbs -- the kind that isolate houses, have no safe sidewalks, little outdoor lighting, and sparse or unfriendly interaction between neighbors -- are just as dangerous for a child as a run-down urban slum. It's all about neighborhood connectivity, walkability, and responsibility. Fortunately we have found that uptown; hopefully we will see more neighborhoods like this popping up in the suburbs as well.

Anonymous said...

Don't know many places to ride a bike downtown safely.

Look harder. Marshall Park, Fourth Ward Park, Elmood Cemetery, Gateway Village, even Tryon St. are all excellent places to ride a bike. And the terrain varies greatly depending on whether you want to go for speed, liesure, daily commute, or what-have-you.

Anonymous said...

Do you remember how you rode a bike when you were young? We used to set up ramps, jumps, raced down the street, rode through trails in the woods.
Can you do that at Marshall Park, Fourth Ward Park, Elmood Cemetery, Gateway Village, even Tryon St?

Like I said, I don't live downtown but the kind of bike riding I did when I was young is not suited for the city.

Thad

Anonymous said...

Obviously you wouldn't set up a street ramp on Tryon St., but I see no reason you couldn't do it in the park. But then again, there are kids at Trade & Tryon on a daily basis doing bike and skateboard tricks off the big disc monument. So maybe it's more a matter of letting kids find their own fun instead of deciding that a whole section of town is just no good for kids at all.

Anonymous said...

Hey Thad,

I am very happy for you in that you can provide a nice secure place for your kids to roam around in. That said, I was raised to be independent and to experience diverse things. For the record, in Boston, my teen cousins ride trains into town today, go to the local parks and squares, and come home just fine in one piece. I'm sorry you got mugged back in the day, but your survived and probably learned something from it. It comes as one of life's experiences. Suburban living, even in your neck of the woods has its share of risks too. Having lived my high school years in South Charlotte, and hearing stories today, some things seem no different. It looks like some suburban kids are drinking excessively, doing drugs, street racing on 485, heck even driving the wrong way on 485. Are you ready for the days you kids get that age Thad?

Am I blasting the suburban lifestyle? Not necessarily, but the risks of raising a kid are everywhere, no matter where you live. You can't keep them in a bubble all the time.

Anonymous said...

are these kids interfering with the pedestian traffic?

I'm not saying kids willnot be creative in what they use, but is a monument supposed to be used as a ramp?

Thad

Anonymous said...

The only interference I have seen with pedestrian traffic is when crowds gather to watch.

Look, you have to throw the city a bone at some point. You say that uptown isn't kid-friendly, but then when counter-examples are presented you turn around and say that kids aren't uptown-friendly. The fact is that kids get along just fine in the center city, using the same creativity and sense of discovery that you used as a kid to explore trails. It's just a different environment, not an inferior one.

And I'll tell you this -- I'd rather see a teenager skating off a monument in front of a crowd than weaving down 485 at 90mph. We should take any victory we can get with the teen population.

Anonymous said...

How does living in a gated community with 1100+ homes somehow not be "raised to be independent and to experience diverse things."

My kids, camp, ride bikes, swim (pool and lake), play sports, play with friends, skate, boy scouts, girl scouts, etc. I don't understand that. You can teach independence from anywhere.

I'm ready for what lives gives me. I have taken parenting classes to help. I grew up in a house with 7 kids (i'm 15yrs older than my youngest brother). I know what is out there and I'm preparing my kids the best I know how.

I'm not keeping them in a bubble, i'm limiting the chances of bad things happening while also giving them the freedom to move about and explore life's wonders.

Thad

Anonymous said...

BTW, I also want to point out that Uptown is a very different place than it used to be in terms of kid-friendly amenities. In addition to Discovery Place and the Main Library branch, there's also the kid-perfect ImaginOn, Ray's Splash Planet and the Green. Those are all places within a bike or (free) trolley ride that a kid can easily access and which all have a kid-specific function.

Not that there aren't amenities in the suburbs, but it's rare to hear of a kid going to those kinds of places without a car ride involved. Unlike 10 years ago, a kid can realistically find a whole day's worth of activity uptown aside from just Discovery Place.

Anonymous said...

to poster who said
"It's just a different environment, not an inferior one. "

I never said it was inferior, just not as uncongested as the city.

The kids may enjoy it more in the city than outside the city and they may not. Have you asked them if they would like trails, ramps, open areas for races or what they have now?

I'm sure you will get a variety of answers both for and against. they both have pluses and minuses.

You said-
"I'd rather see a teenager skating off a monument in front of a crowd than weaving down 485 at 90mph. We should take any victory we can get with the teen population."

And I would add, I'd rather see teenagers doing a hell of alot of other things than weaving down 485 at 90mph. What's your point? If they are not skateboarding they will be speeding in cars?

Thad

Anonymous said...

How much is admission to these kid friendly places?

Anonymous said...

^ ImaginOn is a public library branch and the Green is a public park; both are free as long as you get the books back in time. I'm not sure about admission to Ray's, but like the Aquatic Center it's the kind of place that offers discounted memberships for regular visitors. Which reminds me that I didn't mention that there's also a YMCA branch uptown as well.

What's your point? If they are not skateboarding they will be speeding in cars?

One of the biggest problems that we have as a young city is that there are virtually no options for teenagers that don't involve 1) direct parental supervision or 2) getting in trouble. There are virtually no public areas targeted toward teens, with the exception of malls and one or two skate parks. So we end up with problems from kids loitering around movie theaters, fast-food restaurants, or just walking down the street "looking for trouble". It's nice that there are places in the center city where teens can be teens without direct supervision OR the worry of fights, accidents or other trouble.

Every year we hear about teenagers dying on suburban roads. I honestly don't think I've EVER heard of a minor being killed uptown. Like I said, I'd rather have kids congregate at the Square than zoom around suburban highways trying to see how fast their car can go (which, unfortunately, is a sport of choice among suburban teens).

Anonymous said...

To anon who posted:
"One of the biggest problems that we have as a young city is that there are virtually no options for teenagers that don't involve 1) direct parental supervision or 2) getting in trouble. There are virtually no public areas targeted toward teens, with the exception of malls and one or two skate parks. So we end up with problems from kids loitering around movie theaters, fast-food restaurants, or just walking down the street "looking for trouble". It's nice that there are places in the center city where teens can be teens without direct supervision OR the worry of fights, accidents or other trouble."

What is it?-"we have as a young city is that there are virtually no options for teenagers" or "It's nice that there are places in the center city where teens can be teens without direct supervision OR the worry of fights, accidents or other trouble."

Thad

Anonymous said...

Stop it! And Shame on you Mary. There is no right or wrong place to raise children. Today is no different then yesterday or years past. The city, the farm, the suburbs, the urban, the military housing, over seas or even on the moon that is not the point and it doesn’t not matter where you choose (may not have a choice) to raise your family. It is ignorant and stupid to think otherwise. It is the quality of “home” that you provide and “home” as in in-material”.

This entire “when was a kid….” Kids are extremely adaptable to their environments. Mary posting show her short sightedness and her liberal mentality of “I know how everyone should live and if you live other wise you’re wrong”

Where you raise your children is just like the school you choose your child. No one ever thinks that they send their kids to a bad school; their physique will not allow it – the same could be said for where you raise your kids.

This is pointless move on.

GR

Anonymous said...

What is it?-"we have as a young city is that there are virtually no options for teenagers" or "It's nice that there are places in the center city where teens can be teens without direct supervision OR the worry of fights, accidents or other trouble."

I think the point of the post was fairly clear, and did not contradict itself.

As a young city, we have a severe shortage of gathering places for young people that are not either overbearingly supervised or prone to negative incidents.

The center city, on the other hand, is beginning to cultivate a zone of "limited freedom" that is safe and enjoyable for teens. This can be seen by the increasing number of teenagers who are safely enjoying themselves on Tryon and adjacent streets.

Should I clarify further?

Anonymous said...

Thad, just accept the fact that many people will choose to live in a setting and lifestyle that is not like yours. If you want to live in a gated community, fine. Just don't pooh-pooh those of us who have chosen other options and have chosen to raise our kids that way.

This has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative, urban vs. suburban etc. It has to deal with the arrogance of some who seem to have to base their self worth on their net worth and brag about how much better they think they are because of it. When somebody feels they have to say "I live in a gated community...", 9 times out of 10, I tend to find these people to be obnoxious right from the get go. get over yourselves, please....

Anonymous said...

Oh My God !

There are tons of kids uptown anymore. Now that it's summer time it's not just on the weekends either. Any night you can find them. Hanging at Starbucks, cruising on their mountain bikes or roller blading and skate boarding.
These people that so fear the city never enter the city. Therefore they do not know what is going on up here. It's about as safe a place as any in Charlotte and a lot better than most.
As far as building a ramp in your cul-de-sac paradise, guess again. When we grew up we didn't have home owners associations. Today that ramp would'nt last 30 minutes. If it did the parents would be fined.
I grew up on Long Island and was a teen back in the 80's. No way I would trade that for anything.
Beaches in the summer, city within an hour train ride. As I got older I jumped the bus/train to take me to see my friends that lived in neighboring towns. We didn't need a car or our parents to get around.

We also didn't live in suburbia. Small villages out in the Hamptons. Great places for kids to bike into town to play video games at the arcade, go to the movies, MAKE RAMPS to jump. But that was as a young child.
As we aged into our teens we also got into a ton of trouble as well. There's a lot more idle time when you live in a small town or worse yet a cul-de-sac town. Even with NYC an hour away we tended to spend most of our time in our hometown. When your'e no longer interested in jumping ramps. That's when the trouble begins.

Unless you keep them busy.

My daughter grew up just outside of uptown Charlotte and once she turned 13 we moved into uptown. She's never gotten into any trouble and is a great student. She goes to plays, concerts, museums and all the events held uptown. Her friends love to come hang with her. It's like a totally different world for them. That's scary, as a society we have sheltered our children far too much.

Kids just need to be kept busy and always learning, experiencing and having fun. Keep that up and they will never get bored and get into trouble.

City or the Burbs.....keep 'em busy.

Anonymous said...

I have to admit it, I am glad the Burbanites don't like the city. I don't like them. It's that simple.

The only time they ever seem to come into town is for one of the cheesy festivals. Then there they are, in all their ignorant glory. It's enough to make me vomit. Fat, out of shape, poorly dressed. It's just sickening.

If I see another Dufus with his shirt tucked in too far and his pants pulled way too high, thin brown belt from the 1980's and brown Dockers boat shoes I'm gonna crap myself.

Do all of you shop at Kohls ?

Mix it up a little people. You all look horribly the same. It's not so much suburbia as it is Southern suburbia. You can go to the burbs in other states out west, up north or even in some parts Florida and Kohls clothing looks nothing like it does here.
It's actually hip and trendy in other regions.

What gives Y'ALL ?

Anonymous said...

^ Troll.

Anonymous said...

^
^ ............just honest.

Anonymous said...

I think kids today are given much less leash and rightfully so. The environment (schools) that has grown to be "acceptable" is not comparable to 25-30 years ago.

I went to a high school with 1300 students, lower middle class with white and black students numbering about the same.

The baddest dude in the school brought a knife once. NEVER were there any guns, cocaine, etc.

We rode bikes or walked for miles. We got into some trouble, not much. Those that committed crimes repeatedly or more serious crimes went to juvenile prison for months or more.

Our society and especially CMS has chosen to take the approach that we shouldn't take them out of the general population. We have emboldened a generation of gangster wanna-bees.

You guys that let your kids roam the city: where will they be during the fireworks uptown on July 4?

Hopefully you have the sense to keep them close by.

Anonymous said...

You guys that let your kids roam the city: where will they be during the fireworks uptown on July 4?

For the love of god, can we let go of the ONE violent incident that happens in the CBD in the past YEAR??? Christ almighty, people around here act like a random gunshot was Columbine Part Two. Nothing makes this town look more podunk than when the lokel yokels start dragging out this old horse to beat, as if nothing else has happened in the community in the past 12 months.

And YES, KIDS WILL GO TO THE FIREWORKS. Go off and enjoy the show from behind whatever plastic bubble you live in.

Anonymous said...

You guys should look at this:

http://wikitravel.org/en/Charlotte_with_children

Anonymous said...

Its not the amount of freedom given to children rather the amount of vigilance and common sense.

You can't protect your children from everything no matter where you live. And we don't want to bubble wrapping and make them wear helmets everywhere.

You just don't want them to end up in a tragic ending like Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom from Knoxville.

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