Did you know there's a Confederate Memorial on the grounds of Charlotte's old City Hall? I didn't, until I chanced to walk past it Monday morning. It's not prominent, set off to one side along Davidson Street. And by Confederate memorial standards it's modest – no statues of men on horseback. It's just a square hunk of granite with some carving. This not being South Carolina, no Confederate flag was flapping in the breeze.
"Mecklenburg County remembers with honor her gallant sons who fought in the armies of the Confederate states," it says. "With the other brave soldiers of the South, they struggled nobly for the cause of independence and constitutional self-government. Their heroic deeds will be forever honored by patriotic men and women."
Now, a Confederate memorial isn't a rare thing in the South. They were erected for decades after the Civil War and on into the early years of this century.
Then I saw, at the bottom of the granite square, this: "Erected by the Confederate Memorial Association of Charlotte, May 10, 1977"
1977! Does that strike anyone else as a bit late in the 20th century to be erecting memorials to a cause that – for all the talk about states rights and honor – saw nothing wrong with enslaving thousands of human beings? By 1977 the schools were integrated, black Americans were voting, and no one was being arrested for sitting in the front of the bus. Harvey Gantt, a black architect, was a city council member, if I'm not mistaken, and another black politician, Fred Alexander, was serving in the state Senate. Yet apparently Charlotte's city fathers and mothers were OK with putting up memorials to the Confederacy at City Hall.
I wonder what politicians in 2008 think about that memorial. I doubt they'd allow one erected today. But would any push to have it removed?
Monday, August 11, 2008
Surprise! Confederate memorial at City Hall
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121 comments:
Let me give you a quote from the 20th century "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to relive it forever"
What are you going to do in another 25 years when all the World War 1 and 2 vets have passed on, Say that the hienous crimes of Germany and the deaths at Pearl Harbor shouldnt be remembered because of something to do with religion or race?
The War between the States HAPPENED. Get over it.
I also suggest that you Google "Confederate Constitution" and read Article One Section 9 Numbers 1 and 2.
Sec. 9.
(I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.
(2) Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.
The war was NOT JUST about slavery. General Robt. E. Lee FREED his slaves prior to his taking command of the Army of Virginia.
I suggest that you do some research on the War between the States and quit following the band wagon so many uneducated individuals are on these days.
Gee, what a surprise! You don't think this monument should be here. Just another example of someone from somewhere else coming in to tell us how we should be doing things.
Wolfy, very nicely stated.
Educated American: 1
The Naked City: 0
shocker, I know.
Mary this statement is at least naive: "a cause which . . . for all the talk about states rights and honor – saw nothing wrong with enslaving thousands of human beings"
The U.S. government had precisely the same position regardng the legality of slavery as did the C.S. government at the time of the war's outbreak. And one would hope that you were aware both that slavery was sanctioned by the U.S. government well before the 11 states left the Union, and that it continued to be legal in the Union during that war.
Those 11 states did secede to form a new country. That was an exercise in self-determination that resulted in the invasion and military subjugation of that country. The irony here is that most often when OTHER peoples seek the right to govern themselves we support that. (Think of the OTHER Georgia.)
The U.S. conquered the Confederacy and history is indeed written by the victors, but that hardly means one need swallow the version of history that portrays that war as some simplistic, grade school story of unmitigated evil surmounted by noble and untainted good. You seek to reduce the sacrifices of the citizens of this county and state who fought not for slavery but because their state and country was invaded, to something unworthy of even remembering. You're brighter than that.
Lets please all forget how our inbred forefathers behaved and lets get on with building this great city of Charlotte.
wolfy, try another analogy. No one is going to erect monuments honoring the Nazis, which is the equivalent of what is being done here.
It's long past time for us Southerners to deal with the fact that we were the bad guys in that war, and it might be in our best interests to let it die. I'll be the first to stand up and say it: My ancestors fought and died for a cause I do not believe was right. That was their choice.
Besides, how can we continue to honor the Confederacy so deeply when we're all flag-waving Americans now? Those two positions aren't exactly compatible or consistent.
Wolfy is a Neo-Con. That's why it's all okay with him.
You wonder what politicians in 2008 think about that memorial? They probably don't spend a lot of time thinking about it at all.
And oh yes, let's conveniently forget about states rights and other root causes of the Civil War and focus only on the slavery issue, because that's what causes controversy and gives would-be journalists such as yourself a reason to play holier-than-thou.
As you say, Charlotte's city fathers and mothers (and politicians) were apparently okay with the idea of this memorial at city hall. You weren't even around then, so what's your problem with it?
This columnist seems to exist only to stir up Northern vs. Southern issues.... although it seems to work since it gets people talking.
If you or any of your who don't think that the Confederate memorial should be at City Hall, you would think differently if you had family members die in the war. If you want to pretend that history didn't happen, maybe you think the Panthers won the Super Bowl too. If you don't have a clue, find some real news to write about. Rather than writing about subject that you know nothing about, try a little study yourself.
I have an idea. Let's remove all memorials devoted to past wars of any type from city and county property. Let's allow no statues and memorials that honor anyone who fought in past conflicts. Let's pretend none of them ever happened, shall we?
After we do that, I'm sure you'll find something else to nitpick about.
This is 2008, therefore, we are in the early years of this century.
Let's take the memorial down. Replace it with one written by the victors. It would be completely derogatory of anyone in the south, then and now, praising the genocidal practices of Lincoln, Grant and Sherman, and lying about the truth of slavery in the north.
As Wolfy pointed out, slavery may have been part of the issue, but the United States, at that time, had not made slavery illegal. It was no saint, nor the states who did not secede. Slavery was legal there, and the way they were ridding themselves of slavery was completely considerate of the economic costs to those losing slaves. What was more interesting were the laws in some of them about free blacks.
But hey, to the victor go the spoils, and they wrote the history books, but not all of them. So Mary and those of similar thought believe what they are told, like all good school children whose parents trust the public schools. Where Yankee textbooks are used to make one race feel guilty about what happened 150 years ago.
So why is it ok to teach bad history but not to have honest monuments.
No easier way to stir the pot down here in the backward South than to denegrate the losing side of the Civil War. Which monuments erected early this century are you referring to? Who's stuck in the past? By taking up the PC template on Southerners you must a Northern progressive. Your template is you love to describe yourselves as open minded, understanding and compassionate. Except when it comes to Americans.
It's part of our history. You don't like it, we don't care. Those honored by this memorial died defending their homes. What could be more American than that?
Are you that bored and stupid to write this article? Should we not talk about present day Africa because they sold their own people to other countries for slaves? Please research and see the Union Army had slaves also, including General Grant. Oh yeah, forgot to mention, General Lee never had slaves and did not believe in slavery. Please be silent until you are educated in the subject.
This brings back memories of a couple of years ago when someone reported to CNN that Charlotte still had a Confederate flag flapping over the gated Confederate burial plot in Elmwood Cemetery downtown. Next thing you know, Charlotte is all over CNN, portrayed as stupid bigots. Disclaimer: slavery and segregation were terrible atrocities, and it's especially shocking that they were in place so recently in our country's past. But I also think that history cannot be swept under the rug, no matter how unpleasant. We need monuments and such to remind us of not just our accomplishments, but our failures. How else can we learn? Plus, the Civil War is roundly and incorrectly regared as a war based against slavery, which is mostly incorrect. That was one issue amongst many in regards to why the Civil War broke out. The Civil War in the end was about state's rights. Lincoln was most interested in keeping the Union in tact. Can you imagine the turmoil the US would be thrown into if the southern states split off? There goes a huge amount of land, power, tax base, and then the US as a whole would be completely vulnerable to outside attack, etc. Lincoln knew that the US would face almost certain doom if the south fully seceded.
In the end I really wouldn't put a whole lot of meaning behind the timing of this monument either. Charlotte has been desperately trying to invent history, and recapture events long since past for some time. There are plaques all around downtown saying this or that happened on this spot... when that building has long since been torn down for something shinier. In the end that monument outside of City Hall is simply another sign of Charlotte's relentless push for economic expansion and recognition.
why is it - that only southern caucasions can't be proud of their heritage?
Maybe one day we will have a month to remember our heritage, or a special scholarship for our children to attend college, or even our own choice when selecting our race on every form.
It's a part of history. What are we to do, deny that it happened? Many of those soldiers probably didn't want to be fighting (just like today), but out of a sense of duty, had to.
Most people pass those memorials everyday, quietly. But, then someone, usually "not from here" has to make a big deal out of it, where otherwise it just sits there.
Isn't there a public building in Charlotte named for a pedophile?
Or was the name finally changed?
There was a recent black soldier laid to rest in a confederate memoral that was posted on the Charlotte Observer; we still proudly support our heritage in the south to the horror of northern transplants.
Making a big deal about a small confederate memoral on the old city hall grounds just shows "again" how bias you are. Get over it and let history stay in the past.
The war was ALL about slavery, and I’m tired of the boors who try to hide that truth.
The South’s economy was predicated on the ability to use cheap agrarian labor – slaves – to produce the crops it depended upon to make some men rich and sustain the others who ran support industries. Take away the slaves and the South would collapse like a pile of cards. When land became scarce or infertile, no problem. The “far-sighted” slave owners just thought they’d expand into new lands, new states, taking the institution of slavery with them. That’s when decent folks finally decided that evil needed to cease, and the foolish ones decided to kill off their own people because they had no other plan to grow their economy except by slavery.
The Confederacy’s stubbornness should be blamed for its defeat and downfall. Instead of its leaders trying to diversify its economy and allow a reasonable retreat from slavery, fools thought it should reign forever. It’s a shame the U.S. didn’t have a Marshall Plan in place during Reconstruction, else another 100 years of virtual slavery for hundreds of thousands of Americans would have been avoided.
So why do you think the Confederate Constitution had those articles allowing slave trade within Confederate boundaries? Slaves were chattel property to Confederates, not people. They saw slaves as breeding stock. And why didn’t they want to import slaves from outside the Confederacy? Because they feared they’d be subject to common law rules about pursuit of chattel property, or maybe even be importing militants who’d stir up trouble.
If I were an African-American in this city, I know where I’d be heading with my sledge hammer.
There are Confederate monuments at many county courthouses throughout the South. They honor the brave men who fought to protect their homes and families. Why are so many people today so ignorant, that the first thing the word Confederate brings to mind is slavery?? Yes, slavery WAS an issue later in the war, but was NOT the reason it was fought. There were many black soldiers in the Civil War that fought freely to protect their homes. You never see writeups on items such as that however. You never see the stories of the attrocities committed by the Union soldiers upon the people of the South, and not just the soldiers. All you ever see is ignorant columns such as this one, by people who have no idea what they are talking about. The war happened. The time was the mid 1800's. Slavery was LEGAL throughout the US, not just the South. It was wrong, of course, but it was the way of the times. Black people today should be proud of their slave ancestors. Would they rather be still in Africa? Think about it. Would you rather live today in the areas of Africa where most of the slaves originated, or here where you live today?? And what flag flew on those slave ships anyway? You can bet is wasn't a Confederate flag.
Lets put this in perspective. Why in the world would we honor veterans & casualties of a war in SE Asia that was nothing more than US support of French Colonialism? Because the veterans who fought bravely there deserve recognition for their heroism regardless of how politically dirty the war was, just like the Confederate veterans who FOUGHT FOR NC do.
I cringed even before I hit the comment button. I knew what would be here. I was right. Lame or innaccurate justifications for a "war between the states" and barbs at the ignorant Yankee columnist. But I couldn't help myself from looking. Sure enough! It's here!
I had ancestors, all from North Carolina, who fought on both sides of the Civil War. I am sick to death with all the excuses my fellow Southerners give to justify starting that disastrous war. There were lots of reasons for the war, but it would not have happened had the South not felt obliged to defend slavery. Period. Just admit it and move on. If your ancestors (like mine) fought for the South, then they fought (for whatever reason) on the side of tyrrany. You are descended from war criminals who comitted terror against the United States of America in the name of an ugly cause. The important thing is what you do NOW. And NOW is not the time to honor traitors with memorials on public grounds. This is a no-brainer.
It's probably not worth all the hullaballoo it would cause to remove the memorial...but it should be removed nonetheless.
Thanks, Mary, for pointing this out.
Rather than all the hoopla a year or so ago about renaming part of Stonewall Street to honor Dr. King, the African-American representatives on city council would have done all of us a favor by having that monument to a lost cause permanently buried in Evergreen Cemetery.
Wolfy, Nazism wasn't JUST about murdering Jews. Would it not be horrific for Germans to erect a memorial to Nazi bravery (I'm sure there was some), regardless?
1977 was not so long ago. That's the point.
Why erect a memorial so long after the civil war? Depending on the reason, might it be appropriate to remove it? Was it erected to convince people that it is okay to be racist? Was it a reaction to blacks gaining political power and greater equality? Was it the act of ultra conservatives that want to make this state like the clearly backward one to our south? Good people died during that war and they should be remembered. However, the fact that this was erected in 1977 suggests that this was more a reaction to modern civil rights than to fallen soldiers. Southern conservatives, like German neo-nazis, are still very conflicted and confused.
The sad thing is that these people that so desperately support the Civil War and all it stood for are the same people that wave the American flag and drive giant SUV's with 10 "support our troops" ribbons all over the backs of them.
You can't have it both ways. You family tree was full of traitors. Either you are a patriot or you are a traitor. Make up your minds.
Another ironic thing is that this is also the epitome of "flip flopping". Something else you Neo-Cons despise but can't get a grasp of.
Ahhhh, another 100 years and the South will be no different than any other part of the country. If only we were all alive to be able to see it.
Its not just southerm conservatives...remember southern Democrats filibustered to stop the 1964 Civil Rights Bill.
The South’s economy was predicated on the ability to use cheap agrarian labor – slaves – to produce the crops it depended upon to make some men rich and sustain the others who ran support industries.
The North's economy was predicated on the ability to exploit the agrarain South to produce the products it depended on for the profit of Northeastern industrialists. Those cotton textiles were put on northbound railroads for a reason.
THE NORTH WAS COMPLICIT IN SLAVERY BECAUSE IT RAN THE SYSTEM. Get your history straight!
From the replies to this blog, it seems to me there is an overwhelming majority who are really sick of political correctness and how the left think, even over things that happened more than 150 years ago.
Obviously you belong with your fellow pundits who also believe the autrocities of the Holocaust were a hoax. I just love how the liberals (ever since the Clinton era) have steadily tried, and in some cases even, to re-write history, or denounce it altogether. Let's just all bury our heads in the sand why don't we. "If we don't acknowledge it, then it doesn't exist", right?
In case you haven't figured it out yet, not every born and bred Southerner is a backwoods redneck driving a pickup truck with a Confederate flag waving from a CB antennae. There are quite many of us who are white, educated, middle income Americans who don't agree with the slavery issue, but do believe we should honor and remember those who had the guts and the will to fight for something they believed in. It seems lately Americans are quickly becoming the most passive people on the planet and have all but lost the gumption of our forefathers, but I'll save that for another post.
Instead of revelling in stirring up dissension about a hunk of granite, find something worth writing about that pertains to today. Otherwise, don't bother posting such bovine scatology.
I find it deeply offensive that anyone would blot out the history of this region.
Whether you sympathize with the Confederacy or not, the fact of the matter is that the Civil War was the seminal event in the history of the South. It is absurd, bordering on Orwellian, to suggest we should tear down monuments that commemorate the deaths of tens of thousands of native sons and daughters, simply because we no longer fight for their cause.
These people fought and died for the defense of their homeland. Regardless of whether you agree with their politics, you have no right to try and wipe them from the history books.
"I wonder what politicians in 2008 think about that memorial. I doubt they'd allow one erected today. But would any push to have it removed?"
You like to plant these little seeds and hope they'll grow into some sort of mini-controversy, don't you? Hoping, perhaps, that they might lend some credence or meaning to your writing. Good luck with that.
You seem to be under the impression that Southerners should deny their past and hang their heads in shame over the misdeeds and misplaced loyalties of their ancestors. Like so many others of your ilk, you seem to conveniently forget the atrocities committed by the Union forces during the Civil War.
It's all past history now, you know, and most Southerners I know don't dwell on the Civil War and Reconstruction, or even think much about it at all. That is until someone like you comes along and starts wagging your finger and clucking your tongue at us, questioning our heritage as though it shouldn't mean anything to us at all. You really don't have a clue as to just how offensive that is to a lot of us, do you?
Just who do you think you are?
Mecklenburg County remembers with honor her gallant sons who fought in the armies of the Confederate states," it says. "With the other brave soldiers of the South, they struggled nobly for the cause of independence and constitutional self-government. Their heroic deeds will be forever honored by patriotic men and women
I'm trying to find the part where it talks about supporting slavery...
I think we should tear down this monument right after we turn the Gettysburg battlefield into a Wal-Mart parking lot.
Mary, do you have any concept how utterly offensive it is to 99% of Southerners when you say their ancestors should be wiped from the annals of history? Can you even IMAGINE writing a similar article arguing for the demolition of the Vietnam Memorial or Arlington Cemetery?
very well said!!
Instead of reveling in stirring up dissension about a hunk of granite, find something worth writing about that pertains to today. Otherwise, don't bother posting such bovine scatology.
To appease the folks like Mary, let's also take down every historical marker along routes 74 east and SC 9 you Charlotteans see on your way to the coast, such as Sherman's March to the Sea that memorializes the paths of destruction and death he led. He was a Union Army general who was known not for his intelligence or bravery, but more so for his destruction and lack of discipline. Yes, it would be a waste of tax dollars that's been paid over the years to remember history, but if that's what it takes to make the playing field even and shut the lefties up, then so be it.
The war was ALL about slavery, and I’m tired of the boors who try to hide that truth.
Um, OK.
So how do you explain the fact that the Civil War had already been going on for TWO WHOLE YEARS before Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation?
The truth is that the War started over states' rights. It became about slavery only when Lincoln used that issue to keep the British, who supported the South but who were against slavery, from entering the War on the side of the South. The British had an obvious interest in keeping the Colonies weak, and a permanently-divided US would have been just fine with them; but they could not stomach siding with the South once Lincoln changed the reason for the war.
And what does ANY of this have to do with growth in Charlotte? Looks more to me like Mary is just throwing more anti-South gasoline on the fire.
Slavery was a despicable practice, but let's don't forget that the majority of slave ships were owned and operated by groups of northern and European businessmen, particularly the Scots and the British. They traded cheap trade goods to African tribes who were selling out their own people to become slaves, and not only in the American south but in other countries as well. Northern businessmen often referred to black people as "cattle" and didn't really see them as human, but only as a product to be delivered to market and sold at a profit. Even some northern politicians and members of congress owned shares in ships whose sole purpose was the transportation of human cargo to be used as slaves. It's all documented in shipping records and records of transactions and profits made, but how politically correct it has become now to gloss over that and blame it all on the Southern states.
yep ,1964 civil rights bill.....the US has been in a hole ever since....being southern is a state of mind. Or we could be like those great northern cities,Detroit,Newark,Cleveland. Rusting away under liberal leadership since um,the 60's maybe. LOL.
This article is simply a broadside against local heritage, plain and simple. There is NO WAY to justify the removal of war memorials, regardless of your political opinions about the participants.
Mary, you are completely out of line with this one. I have to believe this was a gimmick to increase your response rate. Having defended you in the past against reactionary conservatives, I'm very disappointed to find you engaging in this kind of juvenile dung-stirring.
There is also a Confederate Memorial near Memorial Stadium in front of the Grady Cole Center. There was a big big Confederate event held there in the 1920's (I think). The County reviewed it and determined that it was history and should stay.
How could the Mayor of Charlotte at the time, John M. Belk, Democrat, have allowed this?
By 1977 the schools were integrated, black Americans were voting, and no one was being arrested for sitting in the front of the bus. Harvey Gantt, a black architect, was a city council member, if I'm not mistaken, and another black politician, Fred Alexander, was serving in the state Senate. Yet apparently Charlotte's city fathers and mothers were OK with putting up memorials to the Confederacy at City Hall.
Did it occur to you that many Southern blacks have ancestors who fought on the Confederate side, and might possibly not have a blind hatred for anyone who dared to wear grey in the conflict?
Or did you simply make the assumption that Confederate = white?
Detroit,Newark and Cleveland ........ wow, you dug hard for those huh ?
Those three cities have each had violent race riots more recently than any Southern city, primarily because their white population is 10 times more racist than any place in the South.
Perhaps we should tear down their war memorials to teach them a lesson.
To the complete and utter dolt who refers to Confederate soldiers as "war criminals" who engaged in "terror": you may wish to pay attention to which country was invaded by the army of the other. It's a bit hard to accuse troops of committing acts of terror in wartime unless they were engaged against civilians. I think you'll find that since the war was almost entirely fought on Confederate soil, the CSA troops could not have terrorized the union population had they wanted to.
It was, to all intents and purposes a defensive war on the part of the Confederacy. Their country and states were invaded by the Union. That hardly lends itself to the ridiculous characterization you have posted.
First let me say, I realize this story was published as an opinion blog. However, if this blog or any other for that matter, were offending african americans, hispanics or any others the way it offends me, as a son of a confederate veteran, then a retraction and public apology is the only remedy. I hope The Charlotte Observer can find the offense and offer an apology.
I completely agree that Mary owes an apology to the native population of the city. This is just as offensive as suggesting the MLK monument be razed, because black people in the '60s were too ignorant and misguided to deserve our respect. I am terribly disappointed in Mary for having provoked such an unnecessary and offensive argument.
Hello Folks...Why all the fuss. We should all remember our past that changed the future.
With that said, I am glad that Marshall Park has a huge MLKJ statue, while city hall has a Confederate Memorial.
Regardless of your personal opinion, all will agree they changed our futures.
^
Bless your heart and your daddy's traitor heart as well.
How's that for an apology ?
There is a monument to the confederacy, and those who gave the acceptable sacrifice, on the grounds of the North Carolina Capitol. It is dramatically larger than that in Charlotte.
Anonymous said...
Black people today should be proud of their slave ancestors. Would they rather be still in Africa? Think about it. Would you rather live today in the areas of Africa where most of the slaves originated, or here where you live today?? And what flag flew on those slave ships anyway? You can bet is wasn't a Confederate flag.
8/12/2008 09:31:00 AM
HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT!!!..OF COURSE AFRICA TODAY WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF??????ALL THE GREAT AFRICAN AMERICAN INVENTORS,DOCTORS,ARTIST...GREAT TEACHERS HAVE STAYED IN AFRICA..WHAT WOULD AFRICA LOOK LIKE TODAY IF IT WASNT RAPED !!!!!!!!!WE DONT KNOW DO WE????? I DONT CARE WHO YOU BLAME IT ON .THE JOKE OF THE DAY ..the war between white northern and white southern CONTINUES ..lol
Bless your heart and your daddy's traitor heart as well.
How's that for an apology ?
Blah blah blah... you talk a big game but in person you probably look like Harry Potter.
wait, seriously? i just wrote a comment about how the observer is garbage and it was already deleted. give me a break.
Bless your heart and your daddy's traitor heart as well.
How's that for an apology ?
Please dont hide behind an anonymous with a comment like that.
This is in no means a threat of any kind. But if you have the gumption to make such an asinine comment - own up to it. You sir, are not worth my time any more!
Well at least Mary got the attention she wanted, even if it meant rending a divisive chasm in the fabric of our community.
Way to be a negative force in the world.
These Neo-Con posters are thankfully the minority around here. Stay out of the far reaching suburbs and beyond and we will all do fine.
It's a scary place once the banjo's start playing.
It's not a matter of conservatism vs. liberalism, it's a matter of having basic respect for one's ancestors. In no society, anywhere, at any time, has it EVER been considered less than offensive to insult fallen soldiers.
You do much (but not that much) better when writing about development, renewal, zoning, and other assorted urban issues.
With this column, you show your ignorance of history and your seemingly amazed disdain for anything that doesn't conform to your own little ideas of what should or shouldn't be done.
Your own ideas match up quite nicely with the smug know-it-all expression on your face in the photograph which accompanies your column.
It just goes to show that North Carolina is no different than any other Southern state.
This is the first 'Naked City' blog entry that I have been truly disappointed in. Leave the relics of the past alone and they won't impact the future of Charlotte. To try to hide that Charlotte was a part the Confederacy is asinine.
It must really be a slow news day if this is the main topic of conversation! I'm not really sure who is the most disappointing here.
Since you object so heartily to the Confederate memorial, do you also object to the Vietnam wall, the WWII memorial & Pearl Harbor memorial as well? Why don't we just do away with ALL war memorials & just ignore ALL the men AND women who have served & given their lives for this country. Is ANY war more popular than another? As far as the Confederate memorial being established in 1977, the WWII memorial was not established until 2004. More than just a couple years after that war don't you think? Isay leave the memorial alone. If you didn't notice it until just recently, how many others have paid no attention to it either.
I don't know what mary is trying to accomplish here. Though I think some people need to get over the fact that their ancestors lost, I see nothing wrong with the memorial sitting on city hall grounds. Like it or not, this is a piece of our history. Some people have bastardized their history with lost cause antebellum thoughts, but it is still a part of our history. Now, let's move on to becoming a great American city.
Now, if only some neo-confederate or history buff can tell me what significant civil war event took place in the greater Charlotte area, or North carolina in general. NC was one of the last states to join the sucession as they had no real interest is seceding until all the states around them did. This is especially true in the western part of the state. I'll be waiting for a good answer here.
Having defended Mary in the past, I am SO disappointed in this article. Mary, how can you reconcile your preservation efforts in Dilworth and NoDa with your desire to cover up our much-more-significant Civil War history? Two bungalows in Dilworth, which have no cultural importance outside their own block, are worth fighting to save... but you are appalled that the city erects a modest and almost unnoticed monument to tens of thousands of casualties in a national conflict?
Your comments about the monument are revealing -- especially your assertion that it's "a bit late" to be erecting monuments that could be perceived to honor the Confederate war dead. Do you have the same criticism of the Vietnam Memorial, on account of our civilian massacres there? Do you object to Revolutionary War monuments due to the mistreatment of Indian populations? Or is this the ONLY war that you believe should not be memorialized?
You must understand that the comments in defense of the monument are not from neo-Confederate reactionaries (not all of them, anyway). There exists a pretty large population of well-educated, liberal-voting, urban-minded people who simply object outright to any attempt to censor the past -- no matter how benevolent the intention.
in dixie land i'll take my stand.......boy,folks sure get worked up about rusty cities. so,retire to Buffalo if you love the north so much.
First, excluding a minority of dead-enders, Mecklenburg County as a whole does not honor those who fought to bind millions of Americans in chains. Second, the pretext of self-government as the casus belli of the Civil War is a cock-and-bull story. Third, "patriotic men and women" don't honor traitors to the Constitution and to the United States of America. But as a monument to Southern recalcitrance, ignorance and bigotry, no one visiting Charlotte can afford to miss Charlotte's Confederate Memorial. I'm adding it to my "must see" list of Charlotte tourist attractions.
Recommended reading: This Mighty Scourge: Perspectives on the Civil War by James M. McPherson
^ On the contrary, it is you who is in the vocal minority on this issue. Take a look around -- everything from forum comments to publicly-funded memorials to the City Councilman's comments refutes the notion that you are anywhere near the majority.
All the research in the world can't make up for your lack of ability to wrap your mind around another person's perspective. You're closer to neo-con territory than you'd like to believe.
'Srill Fighting the Civil War' by David Goldfield is also a good read.
The hostilities officially ended in NC when Gen. Johnson surrendered at Bentonville on April 21. Lee surrendered at Appomattox on April 9.
Additionally, Wilmington was one of the primary strategic locales of the war and the site of what was then the largest naval bombardment in history. Fort Fisher, which protected one of the two entrances to the Cape Fear River (Ft. Caswell near Southport protected the other) was known as the "Sevastopol of the South" because with its sand fortifications it was thought to be impenetrable and impervious to bombardment. It was finally taken in January 1865 after the aforementioned bombardment as well as one of the largest amphibious landings in history.
Wilmington's strategic importance sprang from the fact that it was one of the most productive ports for blockade running in the South and was also the longest to stay open after the fall of New Orleans and the effective closing by the blockade of Savannah, Galveston, Mobile, Charleston, and Norfolk (as mentioned before, Wilmington had two potential entrances, seperated by the impassable Frying Pan Shoals, as well as two major forts and numerous small batteries which rendered the blockade mostly ineffective.)
It's a scary place once the banjo's start playing.
8/12/2008 11:22:00 AM
Actually, the banjo came from Africa.
When Bush suspends Habeas Corpus, he's vilified by the Left. Lincoln did it (among many other Constitutional violations), but is considered a hero??
The Emancipation Proclamation, filed years after the war began, only freed slaves in some of the Union states.
Slavery still exists in Africa. Let's do away with Kwanzaa right after the CSA monument.
Now, if only some neo-confederate or history buff can tell me what significant civil war event took place in the greater Charlotte area, or North carolina in general.
It makes me cringe to read comments like this. Further proof that Charlotte desperately needs to defend its cultural heritage (for better or worse) against those who simply know nothing about it and assume that there is nothing worth konwing.
- Charlotte was, oddly enough, the site of the Confederate Naval Yard late in the war. Railroad ties were the key factor.
- The Charlotte Mint was shut down at the outset of the war for obvious reasons, marking the end of Charlotte as a center of currency production.
- Charlotte was the site of the last full meeting of the Confederate Cabinet.
- As memorialized in a sidewalk plaque, Jefferson Davis was standing on Tryon St. when notified of Lincoln's assassination.
- Stonewall Jackson's widow was a longtime Charlotte resident.
- Needless to say, many locals fought on both sides of the war.
This is not to mention various military actions in and around the city. Charlotte is no Atlanta, but it has plenty of history worth memorializing.
This is a joke.
Here is a "journalist" who deletes comments that are made by readers who don't agree with her and print truth about the behavior of the so called "righteous northern soldiers".
Neo-Liberal Communism.
I suppose you think we can love the islamo-fascists and all get along.
Very sad.
Just as I thought, no real civil war history in Charlotte. Just a couple chance meetings, etc. Save the real stuff for Charleston, Rishmond, Montgomery and Atlanta. Charlotte wasn't even a bit player. It's time to move on folks.
Anon 8/12/2008 12:16:00 PM,
LIGHT RAIL repeal ???
Ring any bells ??
Wasn't that YOUR Chums ??
So much for Neo- Con territory. You are so outnumbered and getting more so by the day.
Confederate Soliders from this area lost their lives fighting for what they belived in. That is what is being honored here!!! Not a fight to keep blacks under slavery, not a fight to keep blacks from working towards a better life in 1977.
Look at downtown/uptown Charlotte...Where is the history? Charlotte has slowly become a town without a historical identity.
With the gleaming bank towers and 1/2 completed condo towers, there are few landmarks we can point to which signify how this area was developed or who preceded us.
I am glad markers like this exist. Sure it may mark a time when things were done differently than they are today.
Do you think in 100 years, the leaders of Charlotte will erect a monument for something great we did for the community?
Probably not. Charlotte's light rail plan doesn't have anything to do with the Civil War. Sounds like your confused.
No Buddy, you are confused.
The light rail repeal was brought about by Neo-Cons such as yourself who thought FOR SURE they were the majority. Charlotte then showed you that you are forever more the minority.
So you see, it has everything to do with proving your
comment..........
"You're closer to neo-con territory than you'd like to believe." .......... couldn't be further from the truth.
As far as blogs go, pleeeeeeease. It's the only place you Whacko's can spew your B.S. without people laughing in your face.
If you want to check it out on a much grander scale just stick around and see what the entire country thinks come November.
As an immigrant and new citizen of 2.5 years to this great country, I am saddened by those who continue to show ignorance and self-righteous hypocrisy towards those of the south and the Civil War. Those who know the history of the US and its leaders up to and including the war know that Lincoln was no friend to the slaves. Lincoln wanted to keep the union together and had no qualms about keeping slavery if it meant keeping the union together. It is also amazing to see how many people feel the North was so righteous in civil rights of slaves and yet while the south was dismantling slavery before and during the war, the North was continuing the slave trade with Cuba and South America under the US flag. Supporters of the Northern thought of being better than the south, continue to ignore the real facts of the norths part in slavery. The north was willing to give up slavery only when they could rely on manufacturing to do the job and also take advantage of child labor, not to mention they had no problem getting rid of slaves as long as they could sell the slaves they had, which is not what they wanted to let the south do. I say honor the south, it's people, it's heritage and educate yourselves as to the real history of slavery and the Civil War. I would also say, you feel to honor the south and the confederacy, its flag and verterans is bigoted and wrong. How do you think the native American Indians feel when they look and see memorials to those who led under the US flag are the same ones who practiced genocide against them.
Just as I thought, no real civil war history in Charlotte. Just a couple chance meetings, etc.
Perhaps you missed the part about the Confederate Naval Yard being located in First Ward (nicknamed "Mechanicsville" at the time due to all factories), final assembly of the Confederate Cabinet on Tryon St., and thousands of locals who perished in the war.
"Tom" did not mention that Charlotte was selected as a sort of "last stand" headquarters late in the war, which was the reason for Davis being here at that time along with the Cabinet and Naval Yard. Major Confederate hospitals were located in the city limits, including near the intersection of South and East Blvds. The city became a destination for refugees from the countryside. And at the end of the war, the whole region plunged into poverty like a torch being thrust into a barrel of water.
The Civil War defined, at minimum, 30 years of the city's history. To imply that it deserves no mention in our public spaces is a truly regrettable display of ignorance.
So much for Neo- Con territory. You are so outnumbered and getting more so by the day.
Which strikes you as closer to fascism?
a) Arguing that the city should not build a rail line
b) Arguing that the city should not erect memorials to soldiers killed in a particular war
Hmmmm.....
You are wrong. You were called to the table on it and you consistently turn it around. Did you learn this from your Neo-Con political Buddies as well ?
You said :
"You're closer to neo-con territory than you'd like to believe."
I simply used the recent light rail Neo-Con mess to prove you are wrong and not as mighty in numbers as you think you are.
Then you go off on some tangent about fascism.
All I commented on was that you were wrong about your strength in Charlotte.
But you will never get it will you ?
No, you get it alright. You will just never admit you were wrong.
You honestly believe that everyone that understands and supports preservation Civil War history in greater detail than the grade school whitewash is a neo-con??? I'm about as liberal as they come.
Who's the one promoting stereotypes here?
By the way, most of the neo-cons grew out of the left wing of the Democratic Party. Nice try, though. Maybe you should step away from the televison once in a while.
It's been my experience that people who throw around the word "neo-con" (1) don't really know what a neo-con is, (2) misidentify everyone who disagrees with them as a neo-con, and (3) hate the President and honestly think he's worse than Adolf Hitler.
These people should just be ignored, because they are irrational.
Thanks, Mary. Guess you were bored today.
You said :
"You're closer to neo-con territory than you'd like to believe."
I simply used the recent light rail Neo-Con mess to prove you are wrong and not as mighty in numbers as you think you are.
WTF is this guy on about?
The original point is that it is far from "liberal" to destroy war monuments in order to whitewash history. That's the sort of thing that reactionary, fascist governments do when trying to suppress the truth. When you go around saying that the "majority" of the county doesn't honor the war dead, you are denying the obvioius facts in front of your face -- only a tiny vocal minority is seriously offended by the thought of a Confederate memorial. Even in this argument we have two City Council members (one of them African-American) on record that the most important thing is to be aware of our history, not to try and rewrite it. Meanwhile the anti-monument contingent consists of Mary and a few anonymous forumers.
The comparison to the light rail debate is pointless. The fact that someone voted for light rail doesn't indicate a single thing about their opinions toward Confederate war memorials. Get a grip and move on to an argument that you might actually win.
In case you were wondering about the date, May 10 is observed as Confederate Memorial Day in NC and SC. Maybe that's why it was erected, not because of the reasons you nonsensically assume.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Memorial_Day
WOW Mms Newsome, you really swerved into DailyKooks and Huffer Post left-wing-nut territory with this topic. Whats next, "slave reperations are good for America"? Maybe you should stick with tomato sandwich stories instead.
WOW...
Ok, first off, yes, I am proud of my southern heritage. Personally I feel that being born and raised in a pair of states (SC born NC raised) that had the audacity to tell the US of A Government where to go and how to get there is a matter of pride. 'Nuff on that.
I will admit that most of my life I have admired Gen. R. E. Lee for the man that he was, what he stood for, and what and how he did things and have read scores of material on him. With the advent of the web (and NOT by Mr. Al "yes he said it on TV 'I invented the Internet'" Gore) it is much easier to search for information on the General.
For most folks who care not for history, here's a few tidbits of information for you.
"... In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence." Robt E Lee 1856 in a letter to his wife.
"Lee freed all the other Custis slaves after the end of the five year period in the winter of 1862, filing the deed of manumission on December 29, 1862."
Lee's views on slavery
Since the end of the Civil War, it has often been suggested that Lee was in some sense opposed to slavery. In the period following the Civil War and Reconstruction, and after his death, Lee became a central figure in the Lost Cause interpretation of the war, and as succeeding generations came to look on slavery as a terrible immorality, the idea that Lee had always somehow opposed it helped maintain his stature as a symbol of Southern honor and national reconciliation.
Some of the evidence cited in favor of the claim that Lee opposed slavery, are the manumission of Custis's slaves, as discussed above, and his support, towards the end of the war, for enrolling slaves in the Confederate States Army, with manumission offered as an eventual reward for good service. Lee gave his public support to this idea two weeks before Appomattox, too late for it to do any good for the Confederacy.
Lee attended a meeting of ex-Confederates in 1870, during which he expressed regrets about his surrender at Appomattox Courthouse, given the effects of Republican Reconstruction policy on the South. Speaking to former Confederate Governor of Texas Fletcher Stockdale, he said:
Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people [Yankees] designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in my right hand.
(The above quotes are from various parts at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee ... I recommend strongly reading it.)
While NONE OF US WHERE THERE, we can ONLY rely on what HISTORY has taught is, and is recorded about prior events. From this, we (hopefully) form an educated opinion that, while it may differ from others, teaches us lessons that we should heed as we go towards our future.
I offer the following to consider when one thinks harsely about ANY memorial to those who have suffered so that others may enjoy the benefits.
There are Atheists in this country and on our planet. There are Hindu's. Muslim's. Sun worshipers. Druid's. The NATIVE PEOPLE OF This and other Continents. How do you think they feel about seeing a CROSS on every corner (so it seems) in this country every where they go?
Is the Cross not a memorial to what HISTORY (the Bible) tells us what happened over 2000 years ago? Why do people so READILY accept it, while casting scorn on "modern day" memorials to the dead, the HEROS who have died so that they have the right and freedom to say, think, do, practice what ever they want? Somewhere in the Book it says something about "Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone"... does it not?
I served my country in the USMC starting at the age of 17. I was given a fully automatic weapon, taught how to disassemble it, clean it, and reassemble it blindfolded, and use it to defend my country against "all enemies, both foreign and domestic" and yet I could not buy alcohol for another 6 months (at the time of my enlistment, it was that long ago) I couldnt VOTE, I couldnt buy a GUN, or even legally enter a binding contract, but yet I was expected to defend EVERY US citizen with every ounce of my being with a weapon very few of you will ever hold, let alone fire.
I wont even go into asking the military service history of many of the "holidayized' folks on the calendar, but I can imagine it would be quite interesting. We celebrate holidays in this country based on what folks think of how we should HONOR those people.
When December 7th rolls around, around 12:48 PM Eastern, Think about the 2,388 killed and 1,178 wounded 57 years ago.
When the end of Feburary and first of March rolls around, remember the 182 to 257 dead at the Alamo in Texas 172 years ago.
When Veterans Day rolls around, remember the 1,308,200 dead from all the wars we as the USA have been in, and still counting.
And to put the deaths in perspective, over 625 THOUSAND died during the War between the States. WW2 claimed over 405,000, Vietnam 58,000. Thats not counting the "minor" conflicts we have been in. This is only the US Military dead from the major wars. Not included are the Indian deaths, the settlers, and the like.
So when someone wants to put up a memorial to those who have given their life in the name of freedom, or just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time on a road in the middle of nowhere, I ask that you pay honor to those who were lost, and not worry about "do we really need this?"
I bet your grave will have a memorial on it when you die.
Teach your children the lessons of History. Let them know WHY and HOW they have the freedom to do what it is they do.
Mitakuaye O'yasin (we are all related)
One other bit of history as well. Someone mentioned earlier about Arlington National Cemetary.
Arlington was the historical home to Mary Anna Randolph Custis Lee, the Great Granddaughter of Martha Washington, and step great granddaughter of George Washington (yep, the Father of our country and his wife).
The Arlington House was built in the early 1800's and then during the Civil War it was commandeered by Union forces and used as a hospital and the grounds, out of spite by a southern born Union officer, was filled with the Union dead so that the Lee's would never be able to return home.
Mary Custis Lee visited the house just before her death, but was so overcome with grief that she was unable to go inside.
So, One more thing to consider. Our National Cemetary, which holds the final remains of thousands upon thousands of dead from the wars, was owned by the Commanding General of the Confederate States of America.
History has a funny way about itself, doesn't it. We have memorials to all kinds of people. World War vets, Vietnam Vets, World Trade Center Vets, Oklahoma City bombing Vets, Civil War Vets. They are everywhere.
Even my brother Fire Fighters who lost their lives doing what we love have memorials. Wars are not only fought with guns and bombs, Words, water, bandages, handcuffs, and more are all used.
I fight one almost every day, and all I hope for is someday someone will look at a piece of stone and give thanks that SOMEONE DID IT for them.
Mitakuaye O'yasin
All of you still don't get it do you. You are all traitors and should be hung by the neck at Trade and Tryon.
'nuf said !!
Madam: North Carolna lost 40,000 of her sons in that "War for Southern Independence". The war lasted four years. The four bloodiest years in American history. I am proud to say my ancestors took up arms against an invading foe to defend their families, their homes, their state and yes, their newly formed country, the Confederate States of America.
I would remind you, dear lady, we southerners are a part of the US only because we were forced at the point of a federal government bayonet!
It is a small thing, indeed, to honor, with a small slab of granite, the NC men of an 800,000 man Confederate army who fought to a bloody stand-still an invading army of 2,800,000 well armed, well clothed, and well fed northern men.
It is a sad thing to realize the men of NC and the great Confederate armed forces are lauded the world over, save for here, in their own country, in their own state.
Madam, I respectfully submit that it is shameful, disgraceful, and lacking in social grace, to draw into question the heartfelt gratitude the people of Charlotte and of North Carolina felt in 1977 and even today for their Southern Heroes.
Shame, Madam, shame!
J. D. Longstreet
still no apology from The Observer or Mary Newsome. Its time some one own up to this. A public apology is far overdue.
And please people, if you are going to bash and call people "rednecks," have the courage to own up to it. Again, this is in no way a threat of any kind. But be responsible for your words, rather than cowardly hiding behind anonymous.
Mr. Sulivan - grow up. You are too ignorant to type without profanity or threats,a nd that is probably the reason the obersver blog admin, or mary newsome delete your posts. Please enjoy a cold beverage in the NY pub you describe. Maybe after that you will have enough sense to open your mind to a different point of view. And I expect with the second and third word on your most recent post - it too will be deleted soon.
Not a threat, but I will be waiting.
If you have to say it's not a threat, then it's a threat.
To equate the men and women who fought to preserve a Republican form of government with racists clearly demonstrates a total lack of knowledge about the war of 1861 -1865. Slavery was an issue, but not the compelling issue. If the intent of the Union forces was to end slavery, they needed only to stop killing innocent white and black civilians and withdraw fromm the field of battle. Slavery was on the way out. As a side note, I suggest you look into the source of the slave trade. Southerners would not have been able to purchase slaves had the north not been selling them. The north would not have slaves for sale had the
Africans not traded humans for rum and other supplies. Had the Africans not had a market for those humans, they would have been killed rather than captured during the raid on their village. Open your mind. Do a little research. Or are you foolish enough to think every Southerner owned slaves and was willing to die to keep them. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Do not waste yours. Think for yourself. Do the research.
I see where President Bush is sending American troops to Georgia.
Maybe he'll send them to North Carolina next to bring her still rebellious natives back into the Union.
Just to ruin your day to a considerable extent more than, I assume, it has been already, Memorials and Flags continue to multiply every day in 2008 and shall continue. Quite appropro that the more you Marxists complain, the more we put up. Congratulations, and keep up the good work!
JosephineSouthern says: Listen to this video to the very end which truthfully exposes Mary types and their ilk.
Black Rev. Manning, P.H.D. of Harlem, New York City stands up and can be counted upon to tell the truth behind the viticrat (word coined by Larry Elder, black sage of the South Los Angeles) mentality of slavery hype.
www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr07-28-08.html
Putin and Georgia - copying Lincoln - Americans still do not confront their history
They maintain that Lincoln's aggression against the Confederacy was primarily because of the immorality of Southern slavery. I maintain that secession and Lincoln's war against the South was the product of sectional hostility. I'm presently reading a book, "Duel of the Eagles" about the Texas War for Independence from Mexico [another secessionist movement].
Many prominent Yankees, prior to Southern Secession, despised everything about the South. These feelings were fully reciprocated in the South and led to secession. Lincoln, whose election precipitated the Southern pullout, waged red war to prevent it. Probably he wouldn't have gotten away with it except for institutionalized anti-southern attitudes in the North.
Interestingly, Santa Ana, following the reduction of Alamo, found himself in the possession of several terrified slaves. Generously, and in a manner Lincoln later emulated, he freed them and told them to spread the word to other indentured blacks, that he "had come to free the slaves" [of which there were only several hundred in Texas]. Santa Ana, of course, cared little about slavery or human rights. After all, how could he? Days after his glorious victory at Alamo he ordered--against the expressed disgust of most of his officers--the execution of over 500 Texas captives.
YANKEE GO HOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone who would question the placement of this memorial. Just
visualise in your mind our "Capitol," in Washington with
"Congress" in session. "THIS," is
why 68,000 Confederates gave their
lives trying to prevent. "THAT!,"
is why that memorial is there
"Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no, sir, not by me."
Gen. Robert E. Lee
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