Wednesday, June 20, 2007

Is Ballantyne planned to be confusing or did it just happen that way?

Have you been to the cinema at Ballantyne? If so, you may have some thoughts to share on the topic that Hickory's Avis Gachet shared. Gachet, one of the Observer's community columnists this year and a faithful Forum writer, e-mailed me this. My response is below. And planners, it would be especially interesting to get your thoughts on this one:

Mary, Yesterday a friend and I spent the day in Charlotte. At noon we sought out the Ballantyne Theatre in Ballantyne Village. It was a nightmare to find. (Fabulous movie, however--"Away from Her.")

I had gone to the Website for directions. Found a phone number, and, after talking to two people, obtained rather poor directions. Found Johnston road off 485--no problem.

THEN...we began to negotiate our way through the maze. I had NOT been told to look for the tower. Even so, we found ourselves turning around in parking areas and going out of our way several times before we zeroed in on it. We were ten minutes late for the movie as a result.

Is that the current planning style in Charlotte? I have to say that I would opt for a strip mall instead.

I am NOT a timid driver. I drive in Washington, D.C. and New York City. I would drive to England if someone told me I could. One of these days if there is a fire or a crisis in that area, people will be frantic trying to evacuate.

Do you approve of that sort of design? This would be a real turnoff to many older drivers.
Give me a theatre in a former big box--with a parking lot one can find easily. I guess that I am a Philistine.

But I am one person who is old enough to: 1) see various fads come and go (each having the absolute answers, of course); and 2) feel that making things fancy is not always making them better.

I would not THINK of making a casual run for something from one of those shops near the theater. It would take an Act of Congress to get me there more than a very few times a year. Generally speaking, I will go anywhere--at least once.

Here's my response, only partly tongue-in-cheek.
Avis, I've been to Ballantyne Theatre and I fully understand your frustration. They need some signs that tell you where to turn! I've been there 2 or 3 times and usually I turn at the wrong place.

From what I see, it's the planning style everywhere to use movie theaters in large shopping center-mixed use developments. There's one at a Ballantyne-like shopping center in Mount Pleasant, S.C., called Towne Center-or-maybe-Centre (not that it's in the center of town.)

But I don't think the planners have any set "style" other than to encourage connectivity of streets, etc., etc. They tend to assume the retailers and developers will be savvy about getting people into their developments. And as we all know, sometimes they aren't savvy at all.

And then you can't discount the old Charlotte tradition of just figuring that people who are from around here will learn their way around and the other people, well, they're not from around here, are they? Example: Myers Park and its Queens Roads.


Anonymous said...

Avis Gatchet seems like a moron to me. Ballantyne. Off of Johnston Rd. Not hard to find.

Anonymous said...

Great theater, horrible design. Go towards the tower, got that, now what? Go up 2 escalators and take a few turns before you get to the box office. Yeah, Ballantyne Village's design might be appropriate uptown or in a close in neighborhood, but in suburban Ballantyne, a more suburban design would have sufficed.

Anonymous said...

I've never had a problem navigating over there.

Clayj said...

Sounds to me like he's what some might call "navigationally challenged"... people who can't find their way anywhere even if they have a map, GPS, and a couple of bloodhounds. I've been to the theatre before and had no trouble parking or getting to the box office. (Then again, I am "navigationally gifted". I was reading road signs and telling my Mom she missed the exit to our house when I was 4.)

Ballantyne's layout may seem unconventional, but it keeps all of the commercial entrances and exits off of Johnston Road (and mostly off of Ballantyne Commons)... if it was laid out more like Independence or South Blvds., with commercial entrances right on the main roads, it would be a giant mess.

I have to ask, though: What constitutes "more suburban design"? Ballantyne seems pretty well designed to me.

Anonymous said...

Ballantyne Village is a huge success. The place is packed constantly. Just because a couple of twits gets lost, it gives Mary an excuse to rant on suburbia.

Mary, this myopic hatred you have of suburbia is really getting lame.

Anonymous said...

I lived out by that area. Sucked then, sucks now. Moved uptown 4 years ago, best thing I ever did.

Jonathan said...

I can't imagine what in Mary's post constitutes "rant[ing] on suburbia." She responded to a reader's statement that he would prefer a big box style theater. Now, anyone with eyes knows that she doesn't prefer big boxes. In fact, she identified "connectivity" as the common theme among developments such as Ballantyne, and to the extent that the design is confusing, she compared it to Myers Park, an in-town neighborhood. If there's a Mary Newsom hit list, none of these things are on it. Seeing hatred suburbia here requires a divination skills well beyond my own.

Anonymous said...

It speaks volumes that the writer of this rant says she 'would prefer a strip mall' design over Ballantyne Village.

On a similar note, I find the maze of streets and cross-roads in the Myers Park Dilworth areas confusing. Granted the areas that are a maze are very residentail...maybe Mary considers that good urban planning?
I don't get up there much, as all the retail I need more easily accessible near my suburban home...including Ballantyne Village.

Ballantyne Village will continue to thrive without people like her. Plenty of people who can find the location, park without issues and enjoy excellent food, shopping and a movie. She can go shop at a souless strip mall...

Lani said...

As a planner, I will say that these commercial areas (like Ballantyne Village) are created to serve the people that live in the neighborhood. The connectivity of streets lined with sidewalks, etc. encourages the residents to walk freely between the shops, various uses, and home...thus keeping extra cars off of the roads. The commercial center does NOT focus on the people that 'stop in once a year'. It's a neighborhood center built for its neighbors.

Anonymous said...

I would hardly call Ballantyne an area designed for walkability or connectivity... it's probably the most auto-dependent area in the city, except perhaps the University area.

The shame of it is that Ballantyne, unlike University, was designed at a time when planners knew about the importance of sustainable design, but chose to design almost entirely for standard suburbanity.

Anonymous said...

I like Ballantyne Village and the way it is set up. Easy to access, from Johnston Rd, Providence Road, Rea Road.

I like Myers Park and its maze of roads - fun to try and find ways through.

I like Uptown Charlotte and its grid.

The variety of design throughout Charlotte is fun, interesting, and actually blends together pretty well. Yes, parts are confusing - its part of what makes Charlotte what it is.

The native that knows said...

All those who rant against Ballantyne and lack of connectivity need to look at the Ballantyne area a little closer.

There are condos, townhomes and apartments all within WALKING DISTANCE of Ballantyne village. I have friends that live their and it is wonderful to be able to hang out with them at their place then WALK to dinner and a movie...or shopping...or a wine tasting.

The planners specifically designed that area so that you can walk to shopping and recreation...ame thing at Providence Promenade & Ballantyne Commons Parkway and various other housing developments along Ballantune Commons Parkway. You always see people walking to stores, jogging, walking to the numerous parks all close by. Yes, plenty of people in cars, but also plenty of people walking.

To call Ballantyne the most auto-dependent area in the city is laughable and shows your anti-suburb bias. Get over yourself.

Anonymous said...

True. I live in one of the townhomes directly behind Ballantyne Villange. There are hundreds of families living within a short two minute walk of everything in Ballantyne Village. They are building more as we speak.

There are 5 different affordable apartment complexes within walking distance of the shopping in Ballantyne. The rents are all $600 to $1,200 depending on size.

There are thousands of jobs in the corporate park. There is daycare directly within the corporate park (Goddard and others) There are numerous restaurants. There are upscale neighborhoods (Ballantyne Country Club) right next to affordable housing apartments (Camden) at $600/$700 per month.

Everything is within walking/bike/car distance.

All accoplished with private dollars and in suburbia.

Ballantyne is a huge success story that should be the model of the city/county.

The Ballantyne Corporate park has removed thousands of drivers from clogging the roads dricing to "uptown". If we were to build a few more Ballantyne type communities on the outer belt, it would do more for removing congestion than anything light rail will ever accomplish.

Anonymous said...

The native that knows,

I just moved from Ballantyne. Lived there 5 years.
It IS car dependent but not as bad as the University area....YET.
Being able to walk to a "small" amount of stores does not make an area "walkable".
Especially when only a handful actually walk.
You Burbanites always hop a car, even for the shortest distances.

Seem you don't know jack.

Glad to be gone.

"GLAD YOU ARE GONE TOO" ! ..there, beat you to it.

Anonymous said...

Ballantyne has not one public park - planning at it's best...I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

Ballantyne has thousands of parks. They are called backyards. They are great.

Anonymous said...

One shopping center does not make a huge district "walkable". By that standard, University City is "walkable" because it has a bunch of stores around the intersection of Harris & Tryon.

It is almost surreal in the year 2007 to see the Ballantyne area described as the city's "model" of development. No transit connectivity, six-lane roads cutting out any possibility of a true walking neighborhoods, barren winding sidewalks with virtually no shade and no immediate purpose, mile-long traffic jams at the interstate exits, neighborhoods with single or double entrances, zero commercial integration, almost all jobs located in a "corporate park" (does that sound like a neighborhood landmark to you?) ... but that's "model" development?

Ballantyne is the reason that I-485 and I-77 are a parking lot in the afternoons. It's the reason that there is no rural land left in Mecklenburg county. And it's going to be the reason that southern Meck. turns out the same way University did: overdeveloped, underplanned, crime-ridden and declining. I'm beginning to think some people on here have never actually seen good development before.

Anonymous said...

To call Ballantyne the most auto-dependent area in the city is laughable and shows your anti-suburb bias.

You're right about one thing... I haven't stopped laughing since I read your post. Not auto dependent at all, no sirree!

Anonymous said...

Huh? If all of thousands of jobs were uptown instead of in Ballantyne Corp Park, would traffic on I-77 or 485 be less?

Get real. Ballantyne Corporate Park keeps traffic off of the roads to downtown.

We need more Corporate Parks on the outer belt similar to Ballantyne. Bank of America has created a satellite office in Ballantyne that allows workers to avoid driving downtown.

Other major downtown corporate employers should do the same and remove cars from I-77 and 485 in that manner.

Anonymous said...

Love it how Mary writes this a couple days after showering praise on a career planner.

Here's the big secret Mary doesn't want to get out:


There's no straight line between Point A and Point B in ANY shopping center approved by these goobers.

As many others point out here, there are hundreds of residences within walking/biking distance of retail, entertainment, offices and restaurants in Ballantyne.

It's obvious that Mary merely hates it because the demographic there is above her pay grade.

Anonymous said...

The entirety of the Ballantyne project -- residences, office centers, and retail -- was never supposed to have been located on I-485. Part of the deal to get road funding was that the area that is now Ballantyne would NOT be developed. Of course, in Charlotte developers can pretty much ignore zoning regulations at will; thus, a designated rural bypass area becomes a sprawling "satellite city". That's why you have fewer lanes in the south leg of 485, and that's why said lanes are totally congested at least twice a day. No Ballantyne = no traffic overload. Very simple.

This is why it's disgusting to hear Ballantyne residents complain that they need more lanes on 485. This is equivalent to building a subdivision on a country road and complaining about the lack of sufficient lanes to service your own badly-planned development.

Anonymous said...

I see no reason for the personal comments directed at Mary. You're free to disagree with her, but attacking her as an individual is just out of line. And I can't help but notice that half of the attacks call her a snob or elitist, and the other half say she hates the rich. Looks to me like the bile of those who have no serious counterpoints to advance.

Anonymous said...

Never been to Ballyntyne. Not going. Don't care.

CMS headline in Rhion times.CMS Struggling to CLose AchievementGap.

Same news differnet year. Last 30 yaears.

They need to read the bell Curve and understand.

Anonymous said...

Blaming residents for the lack of planning by builders is someone silly. Residents make a purchase decisions based on price, schools, low crime, etc. It is not the job of a resident to plan roads properly.

If there is an issue, blame the idiot planners.

tarhoosier said...

I went to Ballantyne Theatre yesterday for the first time. I DID know that the tower was the landmark. without that I would have been in trouble. The "main street" was closed for a music performance. So I had to reverse and go to the garage. I went down to the street level and then discovered that the theatre, marked clearly at the street, is acutally up two or three flights. Once I arrived at the theatre the experience was superb. Best in Charlotte.
None of this is city planners, but the phony "village" idea does not work. After the 35 parking spaces on the village "street" are taken it is a parking deck and walk to stores experience. Same as a mall with sun instead of air conditioning. Then back to the deck and drive for five minutes to reach the restaurant which is aross the highway, and within its own "village". Many, many villages.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, Ballantyne sucks. It is so obvious that it sucks. Just look at all of the homes values there that are tanking and the jobs bailing out. All of those Corporate Parks are empty and the houses are all boarded up. The shops are all going bankrupt because nobody wants to shop there.

Ballantyne sucks. Nobody wants to live there.

Anonymous said...

^ That's exactly right, artificial "villages" are just the next fad in 50 years of bad development. They're no better than the strip malls of the 1960s or shopping malls of the 1980s; all depend on basically the same factors for success and all influence their surrounding areas negatively.

Let's return to the traditional, street-based commerce that still thrives in pedestrian-friendly districts. Our great-grandparents were WAY ahead of us on this stuff.

Anonymous said...

No parks in Ballantyne?

Ballantyne gets nature preserve

The wide-open, wooded property seems improbable in the Ballantyne area, where every inch of available land is seemingly gobbled up for new neighborhoods and shopping centers.

But the 43-acre expanse off Tom Short Road will stay put. It will become one of Mecklenburg County's newest nature preserves -- a haven for bird watchers, trail hikers, teachers and students, or anyone else who can appreciate natural space in the middle of suburbia.

Mecklenburg County Commissioners gave the final go-ahead earlier this month to create what's being called the Flat Branch Nature Preserve in southern Mecklenburg. Early planning made the Flat Branch preserve possible: In 1999, county leaders spent $5.2 million in bonds to buy and "bank" the park land and other open space in the area for future use.

Jumper said...

I think there are enough resources available to find things if you want to. I hate getting lost so I carry a Charlotte street atlas with me and often use the internet for more data. Where there is a will there is a way.

But if you want to talk about confusion, does anyone realize that there is no clear 74 Westbound sign going south on 77? Incredible. There is a sign for "East 74" and a sign that just says "West" at a different spot, near the East Blvd and West Blvd signs. I do believe there is a "29" sign but no one I know calls 74 29! What is THIS all about?

Anonymous said...

Let the market decide whether bad planning impacts business.

Don't like it? Don't shop there.

Mary Newsom would much rather create a government agency to help us plan out how every business (and residential area for that matter) is laid out so that it is easy for everyone.

Typical liberal thinks the government cures all ills.

Anonymous said...

BTW, your thread title:

"Is Ballantyne planned to be confusing or did it just happen that way?"

is just what I have come to expect from the left-slanted mass media. Why? Because it asks a question and implies that the answer is only one of two things... in this case, that Ballantyne was planned to be confusing, or that it just is confusing. Either way, you're saying it's confusing.

I put it to you that it is neither confusing nor planned to be confusing, and that some people are just incapable of reading a map and finding their way around in the world.

Many of these people like the leftist nanny state because it tells them where to go.

Anonymous said...

Let the market decide whether bad planning impacts business.

Don't like it? Don't shop there.

Do I also get the option not to pay tax increases to subsidize these sprawlopolises?

Anonymous said...

Do I also get the option not to pay tax increases to subsidize these sprawlopolises?

Take that up with your elected leaders. Seems to be Democrats who are constantly pushing for more, more, more taxes and more, more, more spending.

Anonymous said...

Do I also get the option not to pay tax increases to subsidize these sprawlopolises?

A community like Ballantyne more than pays for itself. The high property values and business activity provides for huge property tax payments to Charlotte and Mecklenburg. Ballantyne required no subsidies for affordable housing or light rail or various other liberal scams. The property taxes generated by the Ballantyne region more than pay for the roads, schools, police and fire services required.

If fact, in the final math it is a sure bet that Ballantyne is a net contributor to help fund the downtown schemes of Charlotte. All of Ballantyne is within the city limits of Charlotte.

You may not like it, but Ballantyne is a huge success that is drawing jobs and residents away from downtown Charlotte. What bothers many liberals is that Ballantyne does not fit into their silly new urbanism or government handout schemes. And it bugs the hell out of Mary Newsom that people better off than her even exist.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 5:37:
Anonymous said...

...Do I also get the option not to pay tax increases to subsidize these sprawlopolises?"

Only if all those thousands and thousands of people who oppose light rail don't have to pay for that boondooggle.

See, Ballantyne is a success. it has mostly been done with private money by private developers. People who live there love it. This who don't quickly move on. There are homes above $1MM to those right at $200k. Apartments that cost under $1,000 to those over $2,000 per month...a little for all types of people.
And for those who say Ballantyne is full of rich snobs in SUVs, I point to the fact there are more homes in the $200k - $400k range than those over $800k. Plenty of working class people in this area.

Oh, and as the previous poster said Ballantyune more than pays for itself with property taxes, sales taxes and various other taxes (business tax, licenses tax, etc etc.)

Anonymous said...

What bothers many liberals is that Ballantyne does not fit into their silly new urbanism or government handout schemes.

This statement proves you know absolutely nothing about the history of the Ballantyne area.

Please, do your homework before you make assumptions about how "private" an enterprise Ballantyne really was. Here's a hint: go look at the original plan for I-485... you know, the one that was presented to the state in order to secure funding, before a certain local development firm put its fingers in the honey pot...

Anonymous said...

485 seems perfect right where it is. Where else should it have been built? Farther north? that would be on top of 51. South? That would be in South Carolina.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The Magnificent Dog said...

To the poster directly above this post, I hope you see a professional counselor to get some help with your anger issues. You obviously have issues and I won't venture into them on the board. I seriously hope you find a way to express your frustration with other people's choices in a more positive way.

Take a deep breath....and exhale. Keep repeating to yourself "It is just a messageboard and I'm not that
s just a messageboard and I'm not that angry."

Anonymous said...

Bud, I'm not angry at all. Just tired of hearing all the crying,bitching and moaning.

It's pathetic.

I used CAPITALS to get across my total disgust in the same old crap day in and day out. The anti everything crowd shouldn't be living so close to a sprawling city. It's obviously not what they want. So those of us who do enjoy this sort of life get very tired of Burbanites trying to squash everything that comes along.

Face it, we are a city. We are not going backwards.

Like they always say, "If you don't like it move".
Same goes if you can't like CAPITALS, take a hike.

Always when an urban dweller finally says enough is enough and stands up for themselves that you Burbanites tell them they need to seek help.
While all along you people can rant and rave, bitch and moan, pay a company to trick people into signing petitions.
Seems to me YOU people are the ones who need the help.

Anonymous said...

WoW ! I guess CAPITALS are even too much for Mary.

What a lame frigin' blog.

Sorry for speaking my peace. Lets just keep t all sensored and stay warm and fuzzy inside our little bubbles.

I expected better Mary.

Anonymous said...

I really like Ballentyne. It is one of the nicest areas of the city. I look forward to the day when Wachovia moves its offices off Johnston Road somewhere across the state line.

A much shorter commute for all us burb folk, and all the great eating and shopping.

Why waste your time reinventing uptown, when you can just move the employers out to the burbs where all that retail, eating, etc already is in place?

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is going through the same cycle every city goes through. It will be boom and bust here in Charlotte also.

Currently Charlotte is in the BUILD BUILD BUILD phase. Great economy, great local companies, building stimulus gives it some extra gas to fuel the local boom.

Now we are entering the plateau. The boom phase is starting to cost us more. The taxes are creeping higher. The companies are starting to seek lower rent and lower taxes. Less regulation. They are starting to investigate moving over the border to nearby counties and even S.C. The government offers incentives to stay, leading to higher taxes to fund the incentives, etc.

The next phase is the bust. Either higher interest rates (hurting banks) or higher taxes (local govt spending) will cause the bust. But it is coming.

Then this house of cards, which is funding all sorts of things in Charlotte, will start to collapse.

Property taxes are at risk in the real estate forclosure collapse that is unfolding. If this trend continues, it will impact local government revenues. This will cause severe issues.

Nobody gets to have uninterrupted growth forever. The bust is coming. Be ready for it.

Anonymous said...

Amen Anon're right on.

You forgot one thing...the end of the sprial will include a new tax on the people working in Charlotte proper since the tax base will further erode. The new tax will take the form of a payroll tax or non-resident commuter tax. They have already discussed such things before, so don't take it lightly.

The bust will make us feel like those "world class" hull cities of yester-year: Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburg....

Just keep raising the taxes (1/2 cent here, 3 cents there, $520MM bond over there...) and the golden goose will fly away.

Anonymous said...

How does a discussion on bad architecture and planning digress into a urban vs. suburban, conservative vs. liberal, wrestling match? This is getting old people. Get over yourselves.

I have many good friends who live in Ballantyne (and Fort mill, Union County, etc.) who have nice places. I also catch movies at ballantyne village theatre since they show alternative to all the other crap the mainstream cinema put out these days.

That said, I have chosen to live closer in town since I like the more urban vibe and feel. Don't hate on me because I, and many others choose to live in town, instead of the cut lawns of Ballantyne. Different strokes for different folks.

What annoys me are those in the suburbs who look at me in a dirty way because I choose to live sifferently from them.

Just like Boston has Needham, Wellsley and Dover, Chicago has Wilmette and Skokie, New York has Long Island and North Jersey, Charlotte will have Weddington, Fort Mill and Ballantyne. Everyone can co-exist peacefully.

Now get over the suburban warfare and the 'urban conspiracy theories'.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:28...

I could give a rip or flip where an how you choose to live...and the visa-versa should apply to you as well.

What becomes tiresome is Mary and her ilk looking down on those who chose 'burb life.

To Mary and her cohorts, anything that gov-co can do to ensure people live in their approved way is good. Bull. The mere success of the 'burb outskirts shows that most people prefer that life. And many have EARNED the right to live the way they want to live. If I remember right, this is the US and the hallmarks of this country are free will and private property. So, just deal with it. Don't like Ballantyne...don't go...just like if I don't like urban area, I don't go downtown (...oops, I mean uptown).

Anonymous said...

The arrogance of jthe opening point of the article is simply appalling:

Her friend asks: "Do you approve of that sort of design?". Who cares and what makes her the defacto expert?!! I did not elect her to decide anything.

And more: "Is that the current planning style in Charlotte? I have to say that I would opt for a strip mall instead."

Hey if you don't like it, don't use it. Period. It's quite apparent that many, many do like it and choose to live near it. I personally live in the Lake Norman area, but I would not be so arrogant as to question the development in Ballantyne. If it appeals to you...fine...if not, just move on....

So, just take your uptown stroll instead and leave the rest of us alone.

Anonymous said...

I'm of the opinion that others have shared that everybody oughta get over this holier-than-thou silliness of suburb vs. urban. Jeez, folks, let's all take a breath. I guess it gets so many folks' panties in a wad b/c it's just seen as a metaphor for the conservative vs. liberal, Democrat vs. Republican thing.

Our house happens to be within 3 miles of Trade & Tryon, & I love that for many reasons; on the other hand, my income depends to a great extent on the many folks who live in those far out suburbs, including many recent transplants from distant cities who seem to favor that newer, more homogenous, atmosphere. To each his/her own. I promise I won't hate you for living in a 4500 SF McMansion on 3/4 acre (you probably earned it by way of working hard in life), if you promise not to hate me for wanting Uptown and nearby modest areas, like my "rediscovered" neighborhood, to thrive & offer a dynamic, healthy, safe home for my family & others'.

What I AM curious about though, is this: what are we all gonna do when (not if, but when) gasoline becomes a commodity of such high cost that it forces us all to make serious changes in how we conserve it, to the point where even people of upper-middle-class means are no longer willing/able to drive large vehicles in the manner than suburbia requires for virtually all errands? I'm not kidding myself that I don't use a car now......and everyone, urban- and suburbanite alike, will suffer when the combination of real dwindling petroleum, fabricated scarcity from foreign suppliers, political instability overseas and forced solutions to mitigate climate change all come together in a critical mass. But at least, closer in to a real city, I think we'll be able to weather the storm better by very limited driving, bus, train, walking & bicycling, than trying to accomplish our same daily needs from a neighborhood connected to any commercial node (e.g. Ballantyne) only by way of six-lane highway, ten miles away. (Yeah, I know, they seem to be putting up another Target every couple of miles further out toward Waxhaw to service these new subdivisions, but let's be realistic about the difference between these big-box centers & true living, breathing city centers.)

Anonymous said...

Oh no, I don't want them moving back into the center of town. Let them suffer out there with their soon to be $7 / gallon gas prices. I'll be chillin' on the rail, bicycle, foot or my hybrid.

We all know it's coming. I'm prepared. Already changed my entire lifestyle around it. The only time I ever get into my car is to go to the beach or the mountains. My corner grocery store and other stores has everything I need to exist easily. South Park is a 15 minute bike ride. The bus know takes me to work and soon it wil lbe via rail.

Hell, my hybrid is 2 years old and I only have 7,800 miles on it and that's because I took it to South Florida twice.

Life is good. Life is easy.

Anonymous said...

Too early, many typos, need coffee....ZZzzzzzzzzz

Trembling Monkey said...

An earlier poster asked what are we going to do when gas prices get so high that most cannot afford to commute?

I live in Blakeney, which is right next to Ballantyne and is very similar. I can walk to food shopping, many restaurants and good retail. My husband telecommutes when he isn't traveling, so we have no commute to fight. If gas was $8 a gallon, I could live within our little community. We'd have to live without some things, but all the basic necessities are right here and then some.

If I do need to get in a car, I have every type of retail, doctor hospital, veterinarian, etc within 6 miles - so gas prices really aren't an issue.

Ballantyne/Blakeney is fast becoming a self-contained non-urban lifestyle area, very close to what the urban engineers envison in the uptown areas. With the advances in technology, there is no need to jump on a bus/train if all I need is within a few miles and most other stuff is within walking distances.

To me that is successful planning! I know Mary would disagree because GovCo is not involved, dictating lifestyle choices, but

If she was truly unbiased on this issue, she'd admit that the Ballantyne/Blakeney area is a success - but she won't. This article and her negative attitude and positioning in it show her angle.

Anonymous said...

I've lived in Ballantyne. It's not a success, it's a nightmare. Traffic is horrible, especially on the weekends....all day long. Uptown is the easy life.
But to each his/her own.

Whatever you need is within 6 miles or so ? Whatever I need is now within blocks. Now that's walkable. Ballantyne is not. If you still think it is then try a little test and give up your car totally for 1 month and see how you fare.
I've given it up for 2 years now, except for a few trips out to the beach or mountains.

Like I said "try it and lets see how you fare".

Anonymous said...

What a surprise. Another blog post from Mary where she criticizes how other people live. She is such a divisive and hateful person. This is just getting so predictable.

Anonymous said...

Just goes to show you just how divided this country is. Right down to Urban vs. Suburban.

What a waste of energy.

Pete said...

This obsession with walking everywhere is a head-scratcher.

When the weather is cool, I enjoy a nice walk as much as the next guy.

But in May, June, July, August, September, 1/2 of October, January, February and most of March, why would I walk?

Didn't mind walking everywhere when I was a kid and had nothing but time. Now i have a nice ride with satelite radio, Ipod capable, leather seats, and AIR CONDITIONING.

My kids asked the other "can we walk to the pool?"

"Go for it" I responded, "meet 'cha up there".

Anonymous said...

After some comments on here, I am glad I don't live in Ballantyne. What a bunch of arrogant self serving jerk-offs. If you have to brag about how big your house is or the neighborhood you live in, perhaps you're trying to compensate for your lack of size of something else. I have worked hard to live in the area I've chosen to live in and I'm very happy whare I am. At least I'm not surrounded by a bunch of fakes trying to brag about how rich and lily white they are.

Anonymous said...

White? My neighbors are from India and Columbia. One guy is a programmer and the other is an engineer.

Your people need to get out to Ballantyne. It is more diverse than downtown.

Anonymous said...

(responding to an earlier reference about Ballantyne's history)

Ok people, here's the real story behind Ballantyne:

When 485 was first drawn up and "sold" on the public by Rusty Goode Jr. (the guy whose name is on the freeway signs), it was designed to be nothing more than a bypass freeway between 77, 85, and 74. The idea was that travelers could hop from one side of town to the other, without having to use the Uptown loop (277) as an interchange.

***It was specifically stated that the southern corridor would stay undeveloped. This was part of the deal to get 485 funded.***

But that was before Johnny Harris "pulled some strings" behind the scenes AFTER funding passed, and was basically allowed to develop a designated rural area into a massive cash cow, using artificially low land prices (who would pay for undevelopable land?) to juice the profits to be made from the city's biggest suburban development... right on the new bypass freeway. That's why 485 is a parking lot in the afternoons, that's why Ballantyne real estate was outrageously profitable, and that's why the infrastructure in southern Charlotte will be overloaded in about 5 years (note that Union County has suspended new water connections, while Char-Meck has raised the sewer rate... this stuff doesn't "pay for itself" with sprawled suburban development).

To recap:
- Ballantyne most certainly IS a "govco"-subsidized project. It wouldn't exist if not for backroom deals that gave Harris exclusive access to publicly-funded infrastructure. Private enterprise, indeed.
- Ballantyne does NOT pay for itself. It simply isn't dense enough to do so. It has "stretched" the city's infrastructure beyond its normal capacity, making it a difficult area to serve with water, power, police, garbage, and other utilities. Again, the area is subsidized by the rest of the city.
- If not for Ballantyne, there would be no twice-daily traffic jam on southern 485. Four lanes is plenty for cut-through traffic heading to the airport.
- This leads into the projected cost of widening the southern passage in order to accomodate the Ballantyne overload. You thought light rail was expensive?
- If not for Ballantyne, southern Mecklenburg County would be more or less rural. Imagine how much nicer that would have been for the county as a whole. 10 years ago you did not see haze in the suburbs.
- The biggest crime of all: Ballantyne was designed in the outdated suburban method of one-in-one-out neighborhood entrances, cul-de-sacs, and shopping centers. This was at a time when the public KNEW that auto-friendly development hurt us both locally and nationally, and developers KNEW that the responsible thing was to develop according to traditional principles (this has slowly become NCDOT policy as well). But Harris chose not to do so; the money was calling. So he pretty much re-created the failing University area in southern Mecklenburg, leaving an ugly (and more or less permanent) scar on the city.

Just FYI. Enjoy your evening commute.

Anonymous said...

perfectly put.

Anonymous said...

To Mary (who is posting anonymously),

Your bias is showing dear. Please grow up. These tired rants are getting old. Just accept that not all people want to live in a 800 sq ft flat next to a bus stop.

Anonymous said...

There is no commute. I live in Ballantyne and work in the corporate park and typically grab dinner and shopping, all within the same 2.7 miles. I am live on a 1/2 acre plot and I am loving my two minute commute.

Anonymous said...

Mary did not make that post, I did. I post anonymously so people like YOU will actually read and digest the post instead of reading the name and ignoring the content.

Anonymous said...

"There is no commute. I live in Ballantyne and work in the corporate park and typically grab dinner and shopping, all within the same 2.7 miles. I am live on a 1/2 acre plot and I am loving my two minute commute."

That's awesome !
But if you don't walk or bike that short distance you are pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately the majority of people in Ballantyne are not physically able to walk to work because they live on a cul-de-sac. So, even though they might be only a mile or two from their office's physical location, they end up driving out through the neighborhood and onto a main arterial road, then back into the office park through another main entrance. Might even be two or three times what they would have walked, not to mention burning gas, contributing to congestion and potentially having an accident along the way. What poor neighborhood design.

Jumper said...

Once a thing is built, it is pretty much built. Then folks live with it the best they can. Once a suburban house has been built, and the water lines and streets and sewage lines put in, it is pretty much done.

It should be noted that most of these places, including $1 million and up houses, are made of glue and wood chips. Foundations are as often as not unprotected from water flow; the structures are not energy efficient. This puts the owners in the position of inevitably paying to pollute the air I breathe. Freedom. Before the house gets built, pristine groundwater is routed to streams and wasted. Colossal amounts of it. Every sewer line is laid in a bed of water-channeling soil that developers refuse to properly compact, and the area outside of the sewer acts as a land-draining system. Meanwhile, oil, soot, rubber begin draining into the earth in places it did not do so previously. Freedom. Owners commence to spraying monoculture lawns with concentrated fertilizers and herbicides. Native wildlife has been destroyed. Species go extinct. Amphibians die off. Pest species bloom and die back chaotically. Freedom. Meanwhile, the economic lure of law twisted towards corporate welfare tempts stewards of land, the old farmer class, into selling, and food comes from farther and farther away. Transported by those who pollute the air I breathe. Freedom. Unregulated poisons from unrestrained foreign despots enters the food supply. Freedom.

Anonymous said...

There's a noticable lack of response to the anon 3:05 post.

Jumper said...

Good grief, it's 90% "anonymous." Maybe that's a problem. Even if log-in is a hassle,how much trouble is it to sign?

Highest regards, Jumper

Anonymous said...

Mary did not make that post, I did. I post anonymously so people like YOU will actually read and digest the post instead of reading the name and ignoring the content.

No, you post anonymously because you lack the conviction to stand behind what you say. It's easy to throw bombs and criticize other people when no one knows who you are. Even if you don't post using your actual name, at least pick a handle (like Danimal does) and stick with it.

Anonymous said...

Interesting piece about Ballantyne. If true, how usual.

Ah yes, the anon posters. Do like Clayj, danimal and most others, at least use a tag.

Oh your name if you're proud enough of it.

Lewis Guignard

Anonymous said...

Where exactly would all of the current residents of far south Mecklenburg County be living if there was no Ballantyne and southern Mecklenburg County remained "more or less rural"?

Clayj said...

Um... they'd be living somewhere else. Could be elsewhere in Charlotte, elsewhere in Mecklenburg County, in another county, or even in another state or country. A lot of the people who live in Ballantyne have undoubtedly moved to Charlotte from other places.

So, the question is: Would you rather they hadn't moved here at all?

And thanks, Lewis. Nice to be a member of the "I have a name and use it" fraternity.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to "anonymous 6/26/2007 03:05 PM" for reminding us of the sleazy...nay, criminal history of Ballantyne (and other places like it). I am so sick of some of the local "big names" like Harris, Crosland, and a few others being trated with such reverance when they have been, for years, no more than exploiters and government influence-buyers.

Drive down a "real" bypass some day...see what functional automoblle arteries are like. Yes...there is a need for cars (before anybody accuses me f being a Newsom-loving car-hating elitist)! I-485 may have been conceivd as a bypass, but corruption turned the outerbelt into an "outernoose", strangling us with 35 exits on a road that was designed for 10. It is not a transportation project; it is a government-funded gold mine for a few "connected" developers and land speculators.

As for Ballantyne's design:

Hell yeah, the commercial areas are confusing. The problem? Pretending to build roads and building parking lot lanes instead.

It's the ILLUSION of connectivity that makes navigating Ballantyne so nightmarish. The "streets" are poorly defined because they aren't streets: they're just linear extensions of the parking lots. It's a strip shopping center, badly folded in on itself to create the illusion of "downtown".

Streets need to be streets. Parking lot entrances need to be smaller and distinct from the streets. Signage, curbing, and other traditional "street" characteristics are either missing or misplaced in Ballantyne. A motorist will be driving down a "street" and find himself, suddenly, trapped in a parking lot.

This is the fiasco of the latest trend in strip-shopping-center disguise. Pretend to be building an urban grid, but refuse to allow parking lots to play "second fiddle". Parking lots still have primacy in Ballantyne, because even the "streets" are really just part of the parking lots.

Anonymous said...

You people need to get back to flipping burgers and stop pretending you know the first thing about development. Some of the ideas I am reading here are just plain silly. I have spoken with Mary before. She is utterly clueless about development. She reads a few articles, attends a few government meetings and pretends to be an expert. This is a joke.

Anonymous said...

No, you post anonymously because you lack the conviction to stand behind what you say.

Says the anonymous poster. This conversation is bordering on ludicrous, which is a shame because some really useful information has been expressed here. A handful of people need to find a new forum for their ad hominem attacks.

Anonymous said...

I must admit, I've never been so mystified at our local standards of urbanism as I was after reading this thread. What part of Ballantyne can possibly be described as "walkable"? Just look at the place, either in person or on a map, and it speaks for itself. No sidewalks on half the roads, those that exist are empty because it's at least half a mile with no shade in between houses and shopping/offices. Traffic jams all the time on wide, arterial roads. No crosswalks at the stoplights, or crosswalks that are a hundred feet long and deadly. Bus stops with no benches or awnings. Hundreds of cul-de-sacs with no connectivity at all. It's the most suburban place in Mecklenburg County, and people actually consider it "walkable"?

Clayj said...

What useful information has been posted here? I ask sincerely... I'd like to know what you consider to be "useful".

I agree with the anonymous poster about people lacking the conviction to sign their names... unlike both him and you, I will sign my name.

Anonymous said...

^ I have a feeling the majority of people here didn't know (or didn't understand, or didn't criticize) the way in which the Harrises exploited the taxpayers in order to make Ballantyne happen. In fact, I suspect the majority of people on this board didn't even live here when that was all happening (the '80s).

And judging by how quickly the thread degenerated into name-calling and tangents about anonymous posts, I'd say that nobody had much to say in response to that point.

Anonymous said...

to anon who posted-

"^ I have a feeling the majority of people here didn't know (or didn't understand, or didn't criticize) the way in which the Harrises exploited the taxpayers in order to make Ballantyne happen. In fact, I suspect the majority of people on this board didn't even live here when that was all happening (the '80s).

I was here in the 80's and didn't complain. Do you say the same for the developers along the LTR line?

Who did these backroom deals?- your elected officials (mostly democrat).

You need to vote them all out and get a job as a developer.



Anonymous said...

^ Nice try to drag things off topic so you can rant (again) about LTR. Focus a little.

Anonymous said...

It is funny how everyone here just operates as if the concept of cars are bad. Cars are great. They provided us with more wealth across the middle class than any other investion in history. Individual mobility is key to our growth. Without the car, we would all be a lot poorer.

Anonymous said...

Ballanytne has a few areas of decent connectivity near the main commercial areas. The majority of the development is no more urban than any other subdivision in Union or Lake Norman. Obviously many people love it and each to his own. I am happy living just off East Boulevard and walking around Dilworth. They don't make Dilworth anymore. That is why everyone in Charlotte tries and fails to copy this neighborhood. You can't beat the original.

Anonymous said...

You people absolutely kill me.
Jumper, ClayJ, Thad, Pete, Tremling Monkey............that's your idea of identifying yourselves ? Oh sure, that's waaaaaaay different than just using anonymous. Now all of us really know who you are.
You people are total losers. Get a life for PETE'S sake.

Anonymous said...

Well, as far as this "Anonymous" point being made, that those not using their real name are afraid to do so --- well heck yeah, that applies to ME at least.......I live near Uptown & prefer the 'urban' lifestyle to the far-out suburbs, but I hafta earn my income by relying on the many residents out IN those distant 'burbs, and am not about to embarass myself by insulting their choices.....and therein lies my point: the reason these forum arguments go on ad nauseum about suburb vs. city is that, contrary to whatever either side portrays, there are no clear right vs. wrong answers; it's a very complicated issue. An earlier poster said she enjoys a compact lifestyle living in Blakeny (sp?) near Ballantyne; that may very well be true, and I applaud her for that; on the other hand, I have to make sporadic, but plenty of, hour-long round-trips OUT FROM center city for my work; her husband may burn up less gas than I do.

All it takes (for me) to be convinced that the Ballantynes of the country are not a sustainable planning idea is a few minutes in rush-hour traffic on 485 --- but who's to say there aren't plenty of drivers going home in both directions? Or that some of them really do live within a few short miles of their employment? What it'll come down to, I believe, is this: THE FREE-MARKET ECONOMY WILL DECIDE WHAT'S THE 'BEST' WAY TO LIVE. If gas becomes outrageously expensive, either thru its own pricing or b/c of requirements to mitigate pollution, people will make the choices in where they live, work, and travel that make the best sense for them.....those who want to support that lifestyle badly enough will do so, and those whose priorities change will likewise do so. I'm not sure I'd WANT everybody to suddenly "get it" & live within a 3-mile radius of where I do. And one should also keep in mind, with these heated debates, that people, with few exceptions, will vehemently defend their choice whether city or suburb or anything in between b/c, after all, who wants to admit they made a bad choice when they bought their house?

Anonymous said...

to previous anonymous poster:

The part about using your REAL name was never used. Just a name to link people with their comments. I doubt Danimal, Jumper, UD, the native that knows best may not be their real names but it is easier to link comments.


Anonymous said...

If gas becomes outrageously expensive, either thru its own pricing or b/c of requirements to mitigate pollution, people will make the choices in where they live, work, and travel that make the best sense for them.....those who want to support that lifestyle badly enough will do so, and those whose priorities change will likewise do so.

Not if the city itslef is built to support ONLY auto traffic. In Charlotte, there is no "choice" to not drive if you live in the suburbs. Ballantyne is not going to turn into Dilworth overnight. Without connectivity and transit alternatives, your butt is stuck in a car regardless of what you would prefer. When gas prices spike, the majority of the suburban population will simply have to deal with a decrease in quality of life. They will not have the basic infrastructure in their neighborhood to support a non-automotive lifestyle.

It's going to be a gruesome day in Charlotte when gas prices hit $5. This may well be what reverses Sunbelt's economic success. The majority of our population will be forced to drive because we have not designed our cities to allow them any other option.

But hey, let's cut CATS funding!

Anonymous said...

I was the previous poster, predicting that the free-market economy will be the final arbiter of what 'works' & what 'doesn't' with surburban planning models.

I do, in fact, agree nearly exactly with this poster directly above, that a Charlotte that ONLY supports personal car use is a city in danger of some serious hardship, if the handwriting on the wall does indeed come to fruition. My posting is an attempt to point out that we're ALL a part of the modern, resource-hungry lifestyle, whether we live next to a bus line (& ride it) or live in a Garage-Mahal in Union County & drive to Uptown every morning. I'm bending over backwards, if you will, b/c I know that those who prefer & defend that latter lifestyle (which certainly has plenty of nice creature comforts as a "consolation prize" for the awful traffic & other drawbacks) only get more defensive when the greater-good argument is made. Obviously, plenty of folks (most, I'd say) who choose to live far from an urban core are trying to be responsible citizens of the earth, within the parameters of comfort they seek......but there are also plenty who construe any criticism of this lifestyle to extremes of rhetoric --- light-rail is a socialist program, CMS is a cesspool of crime &

Anonymous said...

[oops, sorry! --- hit "send" too soon]

........Obviously, plenty of folks (most, I'd say) who choose to live far from an urban core are trying to be responsible citizens of the earth, within the parameters of comfort they seek......but there are also plenty who get their back up at any hint of criticism --- light-rail is a socialist program, CMS is a cesspool of crime & poor education, "govco" (I HATE that label) is full of sleazy liberals with their hands deep in your know, the whole shebang. So my position is that the only effective way to steer all of us toward better long-term choices is to make it the INDIVIDUAL's decision, and an ECONOMIC one at that. In short, maybe $5-a-gallon-plus gas would prove to be the best medicine this country needs, when history looks back fifty years from now. The economy, like the environment, is a great, elastic buffer, rather than a black & white fewer people become willing or able to pay the increasing burden of suburban sprawl, there'll be less pressure overall on the whole system --- thus there's to SOME degree an equilibrium effect. Trying to shame, argue, or legislate Americans into these changes only alienates & galvanizes the status-quo folks.

But I'm an optimist; I believe this November will prove that most Charlotteans understand the future better than the 1/2-cent-tax-stoppers do, and we'll continue to build this sytem of options that are so important.

Anonymous said...

I live in the Ballantyne area and have for 15 years. I lived here when it was in the woods and live there still, now in the middle of a bazillion people. I love the place but could do w/ less people. I obviously understand that the great shopping, resturants, etc came about 'cause of the influx of the masses. I hated it when it was so far from everything but it worked for my family. We love Lake Wylie and go to Charleston often and wanted to be on the south side of town- to avoid traffic- so we picked our present location. But to the main point- those of you who think we are rich and live in Mcmansions- get a clue. I can't afford to live closer to town. We are not the ones w/ overpriced houses and huge egos. You "townies" are. You judge us and love to act like we are all snobs and conservative jerks. What a crock! My child attends a great burb elementary school- yes public. More than half of the kids in his class are not white, rich Americans. He has Asians, Latins, Russians and some Brits in his classes.

Someone should actually come to Ballantyne and look around. Ballantyne is not to blame for the growth- if it was - how do you explain Marvin and Weddington? Tried driving down Providence Rd lately? People are coming to Charlotte and they need places to live. Someone will build them houses and if you think there's enough space in the center of town for all the new comers- you are wrong. Growth happens and get used to it. Just 'cause you came first doesn't mean that everyone that comes after you is ruining Charlotte. Growth is just the nature of the game and it's not going away. Be happy that it's not the opposite.

Anonymous said...

Ballantyne is not to blame for the growth- if it was - how do you explain Marvin and Weddington?

Marvin and Weddington are towns that have grown according to the supply/demand effect of the region's growth, as opposed to Ballantyne which only exists because the Harrises were allowed to ignore development restrictions and use the taxpayer-funded freeway as a cash cow.

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