Monday, July 16, 2007

The worst villain of them all?

I finally saw the "Order of the Phoenix" last night. I'm not sure if I liked it, mostly because I watched at Charlotte's Imax theater at Discovery Place and, I'm embarrassed to admit, I couldn't see it very well.

We got there 20 minutes before showtime, but that was much too late to choose a good seat. Upshot: We sat in the second row. I have a crick in my neck today, and I know I will never again watch another regular movie on an Imax screen until I've watched it in regular format first. It's possible some of the scenic shots, such as the broomsticks flying over the Thames, were fabulous. I really couldn't tell. And my aging ears did not get along well with the sound system.

All that said, Imelda Staunton as Umbridge was almost perfect. The small, pink, plastic, kitten-shaped buttons on her fuzzy pink sweater were a masterful touch.

A few days ago some of us were asking who was the worst villain in the Harry Potter books (other than Voldemort, of course). Is it Draco Malfoy -- the spoiled, rich and smarmy bully? Is it Lucius Malfoy -- his father who combines the syncophancy of Jack Abramoff, the ethical business sense of Ken Lay and the compassion of David Duke? Is it Snape? Is it Filch, the creepy and whip-loving janitor? What about Bellatrix Lestrange, the deranged sadist torturer?

To me, Umbridge is worse. It's the banality of her bureaucratic maneuvering, and the way she (and her boss, Cornelius Fudge) close their ears to reality.

Maybe she's so scary because of some eerie parallels to the current White House administration, which muzzles its scientists and, like Fudge and Umbridge, just sticks its fingers in its ears rather than notice reality. (Sorry about the political digression, but the similarities are hard to ignore.)

A fellow Potterhead described her as a dripping sweet snake -- a type we've all encountered. Science fiction writer Orson Scott Card, in his review of the movie (He loved it! Go figure) says, "She personifies every slimy, evil person you have ever known."

That's why she raises just about everyone's blood pressure. If I know someone like Voldemort, I don't know it.But we've all known an Umbridge. And that's truly scary.

92 comments:

Anonymous said...

I was prepared to like you, but you just had to spout politics in a forum where it shouldn't be aired.

Please try to keep amateur political commentary on the editorial pages and out of the entertainment material in the future.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 6:20, you've obviously never read Mary's blog before. Amateur political commentary is her specialty.

Anonymous said...

I highly doubt J.K. Rowling gives a flying flip about the current Whitehouse administration over here in the colonies, so why make far-fetched political connections? Because American bloggers are that neurotic, I guess.

I think the real reason Umbridge is so evil is because she represents the "administration" of anything at all, but especially as it applies to the best interests of young people and those who really care about them.

Anonymous said...

Forget the administration, I could name some local officials and right wing activists who would make great bedfellows with Umbridge. Perhaps they should hire her as their spokesperson.

KGC said...

I agree, Mary. Umbridge is definitely the scariest of all secondary villains, and it's a mark of just how scary she is that it's so satisfying to watch/read her get her comeuppance in the end.

And, Anon 7:17: You're right, JKR probably doesn't give a flying flip about the Yankee politics, but that doesn't mean that a reader can't point out the similarities. It's just some harmless literary analysis.

Anonymous said...

7/16/2007 06:44:00 PM - Correction: *ignorant* amateur political commentary is her specialty.

As for the worst villain of them all, I'm torn between Jim Black or Parks Helms. Probably Helms, since he hasn't been put in jail. Yet.

House of Cards said...

Mary, in your posyt you say...
"just sticks its fingers in its ears rather than notice reality. (Sorry about the political digression, but the similarities are hard to ignore.):"

Sounds EXACTLY like the local GovCo types and the light rail mess.
-Regardless that this fiasco will cost 100% more than originally estimated they press on. Thats a tad bit on the high side for an under-estimate...you can count on fraud being found out sooner or later
- Regardless that the billions to be spent on light rail WILL NOT REDUCE traffic congestion - the chumps press on

I have friends who live in Fort Mill, and 2 days a week he commutes to Uptown. Should he drive to Pineville, fight to find a parking spot at the shiny new light rail station, then ride that Uptown? Then repeat it but backwards coming home? That will add 30 minutes plus to his trip?

Same for my friends from waxhaw...should they drive to Pineville when they could go up providence or Rea road to colony?

My point is how does light rail help the thousands who don't live within a few miles of a station? The answer is IT DOES NOT HELP MOST OF CHARLOTTE.

But it is a bright shiny choo choo train and the govco peoples can feel important for spending billions and building something new.

And Mary can crow about FINALLY being a "world class" city. Right, mary?

Hosue of Cards said...

Oh yeah, Mary...would you care to comment on that wonderfully little study done by UNCC on transit? You know, that study that your paper is now reporting collusion and a possible cover up between UNCC and the Chamber.

Isn't this the reason your blog got off the local politics topics and started posting about Potter?

Care to comment, transit lady? Ouch...this one is embarrassing for the uptown crowd!!!

AT ISSUE: CRITICS QUESTION THE INDEPENDENCE OF A UNCC TRANSIT STUDY LATER USED BY THE CHARLOTTE CHAMBER
UNCC study tied
to transit poll
E-mails show university discussed keeping that relationship secret
STEVE HARRISON AND VICTORIA CHERRIE

UNC Charlotte officials used a taxpayer-funded transit study to help the Charlotte Chamber conduct a telephone poll whose results will shape an upcoming pro-transit-tax campaign, according to e-mails released Monday.

University officials also discussed whether to keep the chamber's involvement quiet.

The e-mails reveal a deeper involvement between the university and the chamber than previously disclosed. UNCC's role in the study has drawn questions because it was solicited by the chamber. Critics have said the study wasn't independent. The university says the study is sound.

The controversy centers on a study earlier this year by the university's Center for Transportation Policy Studies, which was mostly favorable to Charlotte Area Transit System, saying its operating and construction costs were in line with other transit systems. Voters will decide in November whether to keep a half-cent tax dedicated to mass transit that is expected to generate $77 million in fiscal year 2009. The tax would also fund light rail.

UNCC Chancellor Phil Dubois, who has been public in his support for light rail, said Monday that critics should stop attacking the university's cooperation with the chamber.

"If they have a problem with the study, they should criticize the study -- as opposed to how it was generated," Dubois said. "There isn't an e-mail that suggests we tried to influence the outcome of the study."

Critics have said that taxpayer money shouldn't have been used for the report, released in early May.

Former county commissioner Jim Puckett, a spokesman for the group trying to repeal the tax, said using the data to help the survey is "sleazy."

Anonymous said...

This is a Potterblog...read the title. If you do not want to discuss/read about Harry Potter, go to another blog. No one wants to hear your rants to Mary about her political views.

Anonymous said...

No, the truth is nobody wants to hear MARY'S rants about her political views.

Although we do want her to post an .mp3 of the sound of her eating crow over the UNCC-Chamber conspiracy.

And YES she jumped off the transit topic and into Potterville PRECISELY to avoid having to carry any more water for Beady-Eyed Bob Morgan and Philip the Petulant Dubois.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a bunch of grumps. Maybe the reason she's doing the potterblog is because, oh, I don't know - that the book comes out in a few days, and she's a fan? Get over yourselves - it's obvious that you can't handle a few days without her usual commentary, but just give her a little time, you can have her back after a bit.

Now - I have to say, I didn't like this movie, but it may be because I reread the book first - will never do that again. Umbridge is the scariest secondary character because we all have known/know someone like her. She is so nasty, and I could totally relate to the frustration the students felt as it mirrored my own frustration in the "administrator" all around us - not only in our own government, but world-wide and in every office, school system, etc. Common sense and decency are endangered "species" these days, and the scary thing is how similar Umbridge is to so many people in power out there.

Anonymous said...

Umbridge is so scary because of some eerie parallels to the current CharMeck GovCo, too.

Anonymous said...

I would think Rowling would be much more concerned with the UK in a book with British characters that takes place in--suprise--the UK.

So no, I'm afraid your conclusions are just a "parallel" of American conceit. ;)

Anonymous said...

There is no question Mary is scared. She could have started the Potter blog on the side and kept Naked City but she needed to "distance" her self from some embarrassing posts.

I support the light rail. But it seems likes these guys dusted off the old Arena Play Book “Decade of Progress”. 6 months ago I would have told you the keep the trains vote was a lock. But recently (coincidently when Mary started the potter blog) it appears that this thing may go down in flames. Charlotte voters don’t like it when they perceive that govco, center city and big business is trying to manipulate the voters or the information (i.e. last bonds and the arena vote).

It seems to me that Mary in some ways resembles Rita Skeeter (she never lets the facts get in the way of a good story or retraction) which would make Tara Servatius Hermione – since she is the one who discovered the truth. The question is Dubois - Arthur Weasley, the clumsy government employee trying to hard to help, or the suck up Percy Weasley


GR.

Anonymous said...

Oh, let's hope that as a serious journalist whose beat is uptown development and urban affairs commentary, she's not really just a bubblehead who gets so giddy at the release of a fantasy novel that she is compelled to act like someone experiencing extended adolescence and analyze it to death as though it were or reflected reality. Let us give Mary credit for a bit more intellectual horsepower than that.

Let us give her as well, credit for being perceptive regarding things around her and for having absolutely solid ocntacts within the uptown establishment. There's almost no way that she could have been unaware that some very embarassing details about the Chamber sponsor "academic" study were going to come out.

And while we're at it, let us also give her credit for being an intelligent woman. Knowing what was coming, she also had to know that the shift to this pop culture irrelevancy was going to scream out that she was ducking the issue of her own defense of the study as well as the dishonesty of folks involved from UNCC, the Chamber, and the Council. The timing of the shift is itself the most telling aspect of this. Were she willing to deal honestly with the issue, one might have expected her to delay her metamorphasis to pop culture commentator until she had done so.

And that leaves only one conclusion: either Mary is intelligent, well connected, and serious -in which case she must also plead guilty to carrying out a bit of an intellectually dishonest shell game her, all the while using innocent fasn of the books as her shield, or she actually doesn't have good sources in the uptown establishment, is not perceptive enough to realize what was going on, or is a genuine lightwieght who really thinks that silly commentary on a pop culture fantasy book series is a fine use of her journalistic talents.

Anonymous said...

Well she has the amateur part down.

Anonymous said...

You all make the Harry Potter nerds look like Rico Suave. Get a life and take your hobby (nerdy political debates) to the right thread.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, Mary! Get a life and take your hobby (nerdy political debates) to the right thread.

Mr. Unbelieveabe said...

Congrats to anon @ 10:30 - that is a well written post. I'm not sure if mary is more like what you describe as I have never mnet her...I can only go off her columns and blog posts.

The timing is amazing that exactly a the UNCC/Chamber light rail story blows up in her face she switches to dishing about Potter. Simply amazing timing!

Lets review what she wrote in a post about the study on July 4th:

"If you are under the belief that the recent study by UNCC's Center for Transportation Studies was paid for by the Charlotte Chamber, or somehow was connected with the Chamber: What are you smoking?

It was paid for by UNCC and done by a nonpartisan UNCC transportation study center whose director has a lengthy background in transportation studies."


Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark. I think the real question is how much of the uptown world class kool-aid has mary been drinking - not what are we smoking.

Anonymous said...

If she really wrote that, she owes a number of people an apology, doesn't she? And it is indeed a little bit hard to believe that with all of her access to the various players that she did not know that the study was very closely connected to the Chamber. At the very least, as careful observer of the local scene of many years standing should have suspected it.

Seems to me about time she interrupted the weighty discussion of Harry Potter to apologize.

Anonymous said...

What would she apologize for? None of what she said in the quote above has been shown to be untrue.

- The study was not paid for by the Chamber
- Though the Chamber asked for A study to be done, there was never a connection between the Chamber and the group of academics who coordinated the study.
- The people behind the study were, and remain, nonpartisan.
- The study itself is peer-reviewed and as yet has not been shown to be biased or inaccurate.

Please re-read today's article regarding the "connection" between the Chamber and the study if you are still unclear on the facts. It elaborates on how the Chamber used data from the study to design poll questions. That is not the same thing as some kind of kooky "conspiracy" to trick people.

Again, Mary does not need to apologize because nothing that she said in the quote above was untrue.

Anonymous said...

After re-reading the article I came up with these quotes
On March 26, Rash e-mailed Dubois saying it was important to get data from the study quickly. "We need some of the research data in order to craft the attitude survey and then to begin the 2 1/2 (to) 3 weeks of telephoning for the surveys ASAP. We need this attitude survey to mount an effective PR campaign."
Rash to Dubois, March 22
"(Bob Morgan) asked my opinion about who should ask for this research to be done. We quickly agreed that it should not be CATS or the Chamber."
Dubois' response to Rash
"Why not just have Edd announce it has an initiative of the Institute `in the public interest.' We have an obligation to serve as a forum for the debate of important public issues, yada, yada, yada."
And the apology needs to be for this statement by Mary on the July 4th post. Comments like these are divisive and are unneeded in a “civic conversation”

“They kept a pitiful bus system running on fumes and pennies -- and extremely high fares -- because business leaders didn't want their taxes raised just to make life easier for low-income mill workers and black people. It's still the ultra-right-wing descendants of those anti-tax businessmen who are fighting the transit tax now.”

As a light rail propionate I have to admit that these quotes give the other side of the argument legitimacy.

GR.

Anonymous said...

Those of you not talking about Harry Potter (hence the name of this is Potterblog), send Mary an email or something if you are so upset at what she did.

Anonymous said...

SHE started it! LOL!

Anonymous said...

Alas only the persons talking about Harry Potter apparently actually believe that it is a topic worthy of discussion. Well, with the possibel xception of Mary. . .and she well knows that she is only using you folks to shuck and jive for a while. . .

Anonymous said...

Oh, I think the e-mails adequately demonstrate that the study was "somehow connected" to the Chamber of Commerce. They asked that it be done, they submitted the list of questions they wanted for the basis of the "study", the reviewed the results pre-release, and to quote a great man, "yada, yada, yada."

Undeniably they were connected with the study, and undeniably Mary quesitoned the sobriety of anyone who acknowleded that reality.

This is simple: Newsom's credibility is simply in the tank if she can't admit that this time around, the uptown corporate establishment allowed the truth to escape.

Anonymous said...

They asked that it be done, they submitted the list of questions they wanted for the basis of the "study", the reviewed the results pre-release, and to quote a great man, "yada, yada, yada."

You need to reread the article, because you obviously missed the point somewhere.

Mr. Unbelieveable said...

No, the previous poster does not need to "re-read" the Observer article. Do your own research...read Tara Servatius article, read the actual emails that show collusion between UNCC and the Chamber - don't take our word - or the Observer's word for it.

Read the emails and see how the powers that be in the uptown crowd think about this issue - and how they view us...the little people. They believe they can manipulate us and control us and that they are above us.

I do not care if it is light rail or any other issue (baseball stadium/basketball stadium/park/etc/etc) - when you have powerful uptown govco-type people colluding to time the release of information for MAXIMUM POLITICAL IMPACT using taxpayer funded studies to push a one-sided agenda it it wrong.

Someone will go down for this. And it is going to be big. This is bigger than the moronic choo choo train issue - this is about power being vested in certain hands and those hands taking advantage of it.

And lastly, before all you pro-light rail people spout off about the observer article and how it tells one side of the sotry I suggest YOU READ THE EMAILS. Then reverse the situation...how would you feel if it was exposed the anti-light rail crowd was using taxpayer money to get a biased study out of a public institution of higher learning to further a piolitical agenda?

If UNCC had a biased study that Jay Morrison and his crowd had influenced you people would be screaming bloody murder - and one of those screaming the loudest would be our little Harry Potter-loving Mary Newsome who is OH SO QUIET right now.

If the shoe was on the other foot we'd never hear the end of it...

Anonymous said...

This blog was intended as a light-hearted departure from the more heavy-duty topics usually discussed in the Naked City.

As is it, don't you all get tired of never loosening up and having a bit of fun with some popular novels?

Anonymous said...

"If UNCC had a biased study that Jay Morrison and his crowd had influenced"

Umm... what do you call everything published by David Hartgen.

Anonymous said...

Is Mary gullible and naive? Is she a real Harry Potter fan? Does her neck have a crick in it? Did the Charlotte Chamber write the script for the latest H Potter movie? Can Harry P wave his wand and make taxes go up or down? Can he make light rail go faster cheaper? Will Erskine Bowles disembowel anyone over this?

Find out in the next Mary Newsome blog!

Other - Mary is a trained journalist. She is unlike some, who learn a particular subject very well, being then able to report on it accurately. Mary is an editorial writer for a daily paper (I avoid the word news), where her job is spinning news to fit opinion pieces which the editorial staff agrees is their position of the day.

Take the piece on cigarette taxes of today (Wed). Raising taxes increases state revenue, so taxes should be raised some more.

Notice it takes 500 plus words for them to say that once or twice a week, using whatever excuse to raise taxes they choose that week.

So give the writer credit - possibly Mary - that is hard work for a 'journalist'.

Anonymous said...

If UNCC had a biased study that Jay Morrison and his crowd had influenced you people would be screaming bloody murder

Ok, listen very closely because you obviously missed something in the last 3 threads about this study: If you can't advance a specific argument to refute the study, you have no business calling it "biased". I am starting to very strongly suspect that the right-wingers on this blog do not understand how academic research works, nor the difference between a UNCC administrator and the academics who do the actual work of putting studies together. It doesn't appear that anyone has yet advanced a significant argument suggesting the study is truly "biased", probably because the majority of squawkers haven't actually read it.

I do not care if it is light rail or any other issue (baseball stadium/basketball stadium/park/etc/etc) - when you have powerful uptown govco-type people colluding to time the release of information for MAXIMUM POLITICAL IMPACT using taxpayer funded studies to push a one-sided agenda it it wrong.

At last we get to the core of the issue: frustrated conservatives (who have always been prone to conspiracy theories anyway) seizing an opportunity to form a lynch mob against civic leadership, using a critical piece of infrastructure as a metaphor for all the perceived wrongs of the past 30 years of government. In this paragraph we see what the conservative opposition is really all about: miring the city in divisive partisan politics and advancing a regressive political agenda, even if it means sacrificing the future economic vitality of the county.

I can only hope that this city will not let ignorance and fear-mongering prevail against good governance.

Anonymous said...

From Tara Servatius:

Another batch of emails I published last Wednesday that didn't make the Observer's cut this morning showed that Tober, the CEO of Charlotte Area Transit System, was knee-deep in Chambergate from the beginning. Tober swapped multiple emails with UNCC Chancellor Phil Dubois, Charlotte Chamber President Bob Morgan and the oh-so-independent Edd Hauser, Director of the Center for Transportation Policy Studies at UNC-Charlotte. In them, Tober talks politics, nurtures along a UNCC study he refers to as the Chamber's and even plots how to counter transit tax opponents. All of it is done in support of the Charlotte Chamber's campaign to combat the repeal of the half-cent sales tax for mass transit on the November ballot.
According to the city's policies on public campaign involvement by city bureaucrats, that's a major no-no. A memo from the City Attorney Mac McCarley and former Charlotte City Manager Pam Syfert spelled those policies out.
"Staff may answer questions and provide information to the Mayor and City Council, citizens, and the media in normal and appropriate ways," the memo says. "Staff shall not, however, engage in the development or implementation of referendum/campaign strategy."


Will Tober be repremanded or slapped on the hand? Remember Wayne Weston - fired for sending emails of bad taste.

But he was in the way of the downtown baseball stadium.

Anonymous said...

Anon Says: "In this paragraph we see what the conservative opposition is really all about: miring the city in divisive partisan politics and advancing a regressive political agenda, even if it means sacrificing the future economic vitality of the county."

A huge distortion of the truth. The writer implies that partisan politics is wrong and states an agenda, other than her own, is regressive. This simply because someone doesn't agree that every proposal for government expenditure is right or good.

I suggest most of these 'progressive' proposals are in fact transfer taxes from the general population to the politically connected, under guise of economic enhancements or incentives. The writer would then seem to be in favor of using the force of government to take from the many to give to the few, while chiding those who oppose, for fear the general population may raise their collective heads and say no, as they did to the wasteful school bonds of two years ago, and have to other issues in the past.

Yes, as shown by the Charlotte Chamber's scurrying about, the downtown crowd is afraid of the people. Yet government is supposed to be for the people. The writer would have this axiom turned about.

Lewis Guignard

Anonymous said...

Want specific evidence of bias? Simple: the use of camparative data without accounting for anomolous circumstances. For example comparing the cost of the CATS above ground light rail system to rail construction scosts for systems that involve significant underground segments. No serious research is conducted in that fashion. (It would be a bit like comparing the cost per mile of 485 to the cost per mile of Boston's "Big Dig": the projects are too dissimilar to provide a useful comparison unless the data is normed to accoutn for those differences. That was not done in the transit study and as a result it's comparative data is not useful.

Anonymous said...

the projects are too dissimilar to provide a useful comparison unless the data is normed to accoutn for those differences.

It was the conclusion of the study that an in-depth analysis of this kind would be necessary.

But for what it's worth, the South Line still comes out favorably in the broad-brushed comparisons that have already been developed. It didn't cost anywhere near what other, similar projects have in other cities.

Anonymous said...

A huge distortion of the truth. The writer implies that partisan politics is wrong and states an agenda, other than her own, is regressive. This simply because someone doesn't agree that every proposal for government expenditure is right or good.

Lewis, it's time for you to get off the crazy train and join the rest of us in rational debate. The anon post above didn't make any assertion that even came close to what you state in the italicized section above.

If you're not going to play fair, please find another game.

Rita Skeeter said...

This all reminds me how some folks will steer the conversation at the bar at The Leaky Cauldron, no matter where it started.
Whatever happens, we can count on leaks, misinformation and a difficult time sorting out who's good and who's evil. It makes for a great story.
May the good wizards win.

Rita Skeeter said...

And may muggles and wizards band together to fight popup ads. Thank goodness I have a magical popup blocker, but I disabled it to seeing what was popping up. How tacky.

Anonymous said...

Regarding this:"But for what it's worth, the South Line still comes out favorably in the broad-brushed comparisons that have already been developed. It didn't cost anywhere near what other, similar projects have in other cities."

Actually it does not, even in this study. It comes out near the middle. But again, the number are utterly meaningless, since they represent the comparison of incomparables. One oculd not use the data presented to draw any conclusion whatever regarding whether the cost is reaosnable. It is not unlike comparing the price of a Lexus to a variety of vehicles including a Rolls and a group of SUVs as well as a couple of Toyotas and Hondas. It is simply not possible to use that data to assess whether or not the price of the Lexus is reasonable.

There are other serious problems in the study, however. For example when looking at cost over-runs one of the projects they compare is the runway extension at CLT. On the face =of it, that is simply ridiculous. (And I'm not suggesitng that reresents bias so much as a torutured effort to advance a childish argument: our over run is bad, but so are these others.) Evne the study's author was forced to avoid appearing to be completely foolihs by admiting that there are fairly significant difference betwen runways and roads, but then justifies the use of the data becuase they use similar materials. But of course it is simply absurd to defend the over-runs in the first place. It amounts to saying, "We're not very good at figuring out what these things should cost, but trust us: we're competent to build them and operate them". To defend them by saying in essence that government is ALWAYS incompetent in this regard is not much help.

It is simply not a serious academic exercise.


But then the e-mails that have been released make it abundantly clear that it was not done as an academic inquiry, but rather as an argument to influence the election.

Anonymous said...

What I don't understand is why those who hate uptown, government, public transportation, liberalism, urban culture, and any other changes that are occurring in this city won't simply move beyond the county line. There, they would be removed from all they say they hate and in more company with like minds. if Charlotte and Mecklenburg County are such horrible places, why don't you move?

Danimal

Anonymous said...

Danimal this is a poor argument. Its equivalent to: well if liberals like social programs and big government why don’t they just pay more then they need to in taxes – so the rest of use don’t have too.

GR

Anonymous said...

Danimal, there are already plenty of other places where you can get your fill of government, public transportation, and liberalism. Some of them have names like "New York City", "Boston", and "San Francisco".

So why don't YOU move and let Charlotte remain a place of fair taxes, fiscal responsibility, and accountable government?

Anonymous said...

P.S., Danimal: Better be careful what you wish for. Someday all those who hate gettin' raped with high taxes may just take you up on your offer to leave, and you and your ilk will be stuck with a massive infrastructure of shiny toys that you can't afford.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:50 AM writes: "Lewis, it's time for you to get off the crazy train and join the rest of us in rational debate. The anon post above didn't make any assertion that even came close to what you state in the italicized section above.

If you're not going to play fair, please find another game."

Play fair?? Go back and read the post I quoted from again. To suggest I am not playing fair and this person is indicates bias on your part.

Then you ask me to go away if I don't abide by your rules. - Mary makes the rules, sorry. In any case, your comment is rather humorous. Thanks for the laugh.

Lewis

Anonymous said...

It is simply not a serious academic exercise.

I'm glad that you at least seem to have read the study, because most of the Antis on this blog clearly have not.

As to your criticisms of the data, I would point you back to the title page of the study: it's a "brief" study of the half-cent tax's impact. In other words, it doesn't account for infrastructure not covered by the half-cent, doesn't claim to have made a thorough or detailed comparison of transit systems, and isn't intended as a final word on the subject.

In fact, it specifically recommends that a more detailed and exact study be done. If that happens, it would be expected to address the kinds of concerns expressed above.

Anonymous said...

The content is not the issue (although in addition to seruiously suspect methodology that cannot be excused simply by saying it is a "brief" study or that it suggested that additional study is warranted, it also contains a number of factual errors. That alone would suggest that it was not undertaken as a serious exercise to investigate matters.)

The issue is and remains that serious academic work must take great care to be conducted in such a way that bias is not introduced. The independence of the study was plainly compromised before and after it was conducted. That takes it out of the realm of serious academic research.

The plain and obvious fact of the matter is that it was not INTENDED as serious academic research. IT was intended as advocacy. I repeat: THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT MAY NOT BE ACCURATE. It does, however, mean that it is of no greater weight than the arguments made by others.

Anonymous said...

^ In other words, the politics are more important to you than the facts.

Let's hope that Greenpeace never gives moral support to academic research to widen awareness of global warming, or we'll be back to square one on that issue too.

Anonymous said...

Facts are clearly more important, but even more important is truth or if you prefer, reality. The problem is that advocates rarely provide complete facts and frequently use facts to obscure realities. That's why the output of advocates for a cause cannot be relied upon to disclose the truth.

The problme here is that the UNCC study is simply more advocacy. And that isn't problem so long as everyone recognizes that it IS advocacy, and doesn't trump the output of other advocates merely because it is the product of an institution that is not supposed to be advocating for a specific result.

And of course, again, the problem as it realtes to this blog, and the reason that it remains a topic here is because Mary said that anyone who believed that the study was "somehow connected" to the Chamber was "smoking something". Unquestionably she was quite wrong.

Anonymous said...

^ This has been said again and again: Nobody associated with the Chamber contributed anything at all to the study (aside from administrative approval). The author of the study is not caught up in this in any way. None of the data was influenced by any pro-rail party. The study, for better or worse, stands completely independent of the personal politics of Dubuois, Rash, or any other entity being accused of collaboration with government interests.

To make it plain and simple: The study is not affected by politics. It's academically sound until proven otherwise.

So calling it "biased", "slanted", "unacademic", or even "suspect" is making a false conclusion about hard data based on politics. This familiar refrain has been used to try and debunk evolutionary theory, global warming, and any other politically-charged cause that was based upon academic research. It is no surprise to see the same strategy at work in this debate.

As for Mary's words, they are hers and only she is accountable for them. They have nothing to do with the greater thrust of the issue, and she will either apologize for them or not as she sees fit.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 11:57: You are so naive.

Anonymous said...

That would all be great regardng the chamber's involvement, except it is not true. You may repeat that to yourself over and over -as I'm sure CATS hopes you will- but it does and cannot change reality. And the reality is that the even the fundamental basis for the study was provided to DuBois by Morgan.

But spin on if you need to.

As to the study reflecting objective truth until proven otherwise: that is only true to the degree that any other work of advocacy is acceptable to you as true until proven otherwise precisely because so many of the stnadard protocols of academic research were violated. (Not least of which is lying about the genesis of the study.)

It is the presentation of fact -and again, I point out to you, some of them simply wrong, others obviously not- but that does not make it an objectively correct presentation of truth. If you don't understand the difference -and again I suspect CATS hope you do not- then I suppose you could hold that it carries more weight than it does. But as an academic exercise, it does nothing but embarrass UNCC.

(Here's the short list of obvious, glaring deficiencies that would get it a C- if it were presented as class work, even without the deception, etc.: it compares things tht are incomparable and does not norm them, it contains obvious errors that reflect sloppy research and preparation, it argues irrelevancies. It is not comprehensive and does not claim to be, -indeed as has been pointed out it tells the reader that it is not- but within the context of a relatively brief and non-comprehensive study it remains that those matters of method and fact alone mark it as a poor research product.)

Anonymous said...

^ The only way to norm all of the data presented would be to create a highly detailed, line-item study of all LRT transit systems in the nation. That would, at the least, tie up a full-time staff of researchers for weeks and cost a fairly large amount of time and money for all the access. Obviously, that is outside the scope of what the study was trying to accomplish: a brief, generalized concept of the 1/2 cent tax's impact. It sounds like you were expecting to see A-plus work on the rough draft; not a very realistic expectation, is it?

"that is only true to the degree that any other work of advocacy is acceptable "

1) The study itself is not a work of advocacy, because there were no advocates involved in writing it. Again you are failing to distinguish between administrators and researchers.

2) Objective truth does not change based on presentation. That is the very meaning of the words "objective" and "truth".

Anonymous said...

You'd be hard pressed to be more wrong if you tries.

First of all, a limited scope does not excuse methods that make data useless. If data is included in academic research, it must be not only relevant, but a useful reflection of reality. That requires appropriate methodology. If that is not possible within the scope of the research, then the data must be excluded. That's awfully basic. Put in very simple terms, bad methods are not excused by limited objectives.

Item next: The objective of the study was NOT to disclose the impact of a repeal of the 1/2 cent sales tax. the discussion of the tax impact form a minor part of the study and involves virtually no research data.

Item Next: The study was written by Edd Hauser. IT would be difficult to suggest that he is independent of any bias, particulary considering that his colleagues, his boss, and the Chamber all viewed him as a counterpoint to the tax repeal peopl and even went so far as to suggest that he be used to present "the other side" at speaking venues. That is not the picture of someone who TAKES no sides.

And it would take a blind man to not recognize the import of Dennis Rash's, March 26th communication with DuBois that the study would be crucial in mountng an anti-repeal campaign.

OK, so you don't recognize the import of that. Let me help. That is literally days after Morgan gave the questions for the study to DuBois. It is THE day that Hauser claimed to have decided to do the study after attending a Council meeting (of course he was lying about that, since his colleague Rash was sending e-mails to their boss DuBois about the study before that council mneeting took polace, but I digress.). But most importantly -now read this slowly- Rash knew the results of the study would be necessary to "mount an effective PR campaign" more than a month before the study was complete and the very day that the study's author said he decided to do the study.

Now either Rash can foretell the future -and I assure you he cannot: I know him. Nice guy, but no paranormal powers- or he did not need to foretell the future to know that the study results would be useful in a pro LRT PR campaign. And that is another way of saying he knew that the results were predetermined on the same day Hauser claims to have decided to do the study.

Let me give you a little personal insight. Indeed I do know Dennis. He's a very bright fellow who has not forgotten his legal training. and no matter what he believes philosophically, he also knows that you don't assume the results of anything unless you KNOW the results. (Or as peole in my line of work say, "You don't ask a question to which you do not know the answer.")

Of course it was advocacy. Of course it was biased. Hell, they knew the results before they did the research!

Anonymous said...

^ Egads! The primary executive at the Center for Transportation Policy Studies, who has spent his entire professional career in the field of transit and real estate, KNEW that the train would be beneficial even before UNCC's study proved it! He knew this with ONLY the abundant evidence that is plain to see for every ordinary citizen!!! Call out the torches and pitchforks!!!

Nice try, Matlock. 58% of the voting public agreed that rail was a good thing a DECADE before this study came out. It's not a huge intellectual leap to assume that a major piece of infrastructure (an airport, beltway, or rail system) is going to be an economic benefit to a city.

Rash was simply stating what most citizens already agreed was true: that rail is good for the city. No big surprise that he assumed that the UNCC study would confirm that fact, making it a good basis for a pro-rail effort.

This effects the UNCC study... not at all. Claims of corruption are groundless unless you can connect Rash to some sort of actual influence over the study, or show that Hauser intentionally manipulated the data. But you can't.

Look, we all know that the Antis would be criticizing this study one way or another, because they are politically committed to destroying the rail system. It's not a big surprise that at even the slightest sniff of controversy, the bloggers are out in force insisting on conspiracy.

Unfortunately, there aren't sufficient grounds for that kind of accusation. Time to turn off the Law & Order reruns and go back to your day jobs (you DO have a day job, right?).

Anonymous said...

What a surprise that the right-wing regressives are more concerned with WHO supported the study whan WHAT it said. They have no business commenting on academics because they obviously aren't familiar with how valid arguments are made.

Anonymous said...

Somehow I knew you were going there: that Dennis is simply knowledgeable about transit and therefore knew the study would find that LRT is a wonderful thing. Except that that wasn't what the study looked at: it spent most of it's effort making cost comparisons of capital costs, cost over-runs, and operating cost of various systems. And you see, he would have no way of knowing what that would show unless he had already done the specific comparisons himself, since the results depend on the universe of data to which CATS LRT was compared, and again are in any case meaningless unless they are normed in the first place.

I think it's fairly obvious that you haven't read the study, but it takes no great genius to realize that he would not have been telling DuBois that "we" -UNCC, the Center for Transportation Policy Studies,- need the data from the study unless he understood that the DATA was going to be useful. Not the conclusions, not the thrust of the study, but the DATA.

Now having had this much of an exchange with you I suspect that you may not instantly se the problem that presents. I'll help It is this: data is rather specific. Not all data, not even all data that could be interpreted favorably can be assumed to be useful to the PR effort. To know that the specifc data that is going to be in the study will be needed requires that you know generally the threust of that data. But again, data is specific, and merely because Dennis believes in mass transit does not mean that he knows how the numbers are going to come out. As I said earlier, he's a bright fellow, and he damn well knows that you DON'T assume that what you believe to be true about something WILL be true.

But enough of this: you are grasping at straws to a degree that is just embarassing to watch.

Anonymous said...

And btw, if Hauser is merely neutral why inthe world would he need to lie about the genesis of the study? But lie he most obviousy did: Rash knew the results of the study at a time when Hauser insists he had not yet decided to DO the study.

Yup. This is credible academic research.

Anonymous said...

While the rednecks are distracted questioning the academic integrity of a study, I will concentrate on persuading the voters to vote no on this repeal. Then I will advocate a special tax on fatback and confederate flags to help speed up building the rest of the transit system. Anybody with me on this one?

Anonymous said...

Anon 7/19 401 PM Writes: "What a surprise that the right-wing regressives are more concerned with WHO supported the study whan WHAT it said. They have no business commenting on academics because they obviously aren't familiar with how valid arguments are made."

In return may be said: What a surprise, the left wing socialist/corporatists are more concerned with finding excuses to tax the many to fund the projects of the few, that they trample on freedom, are willing to ignore individuals rights and believe higher taxes, being good for them and their friends, should be imposed on everyone else. So they are more concerned with WHO gets paid than WHAT the projects accomplish.

Lewis

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

But again, data is specific, and merely because Dennis believes in mass transit does not mean that he knows how the numbers are going to come out.

Is it really so hard to believe that the city's foremost expert on transit policy already had a pretty good idea what the data would conclude? That would be like Al Gore anticipating that a study would help prove global warming to be true, or Jane Goodall expecting a study to confirm her beliefs about gorilla behavior. Rash is a professional academic who specializes in transit policy; it's his job to be familiar with the kinds of data that everyone here is discussing from an amateur perspective.

But the real key to the situation is quite simple: there is still not an iota of evidence that Rash influenced the study in any way. If you can produce even the slightest shred of manipulation on his part -- REAL manipulation, not wild guesswork about what he means when he uses the word "we" -- then we will have a real issue to discuss. Otherwise, let's get back to discussing the actual transit issue, which has taken a noticeable backseat in the right-wing rhetoric lately (following the talk-radio trend, unsurprisingly).

Anonymous said...

If you want to discuss the real issue, then discuss the amount of traffic taken off the roads, the amount of ridership, cost per person mile, the ability to vary routes, the ability to serve the general population, the ability to serve the disabled, the ability to serve those who live too far from the rail for it to be of service, and other radial service limitations i.e. it only goes downtown.

When compared to buses and roads, rail is left behind.

Whether or not the cost of rail in Charlotte is comparable to the cost of rail in other cities is immaterial. The fact that we are wasting money faster or slower than some other city reminds me of people who tell me how much they saved by buying something on sale.

So, I ask, how much did you spend to save so much? The obvious answer is they didn't save anything.

Lewis

Anonymous said...

If you go back to earlier posts, which I and many others made, information from websites, such as the APTA - American Public Transportation Association has been used to show the waste of rail.

Do we now need to go back and cover that again for you?

Anonymous said...

If you want to discuss the real issue, then discuss the amount of traffic taken off the roads, the amount of ridership, cost per person mile, the ability to vary routes, the ability to serve the general population, the ability to serve the disabled, the ability to serve those who live too far from the rail for it to be of service, and other radial service limitations i.e. it only goes downtown.

Sounds good to me. That's the issue that is supposed to be at the center of the debate to begin with. Personally I believe that the benefits of rail far outweigh the piddling tax ($40/year) that is needed to pay for it, and I would even agree that there are some design flaws in the way that CATS drew out the system (I would have stopped service at Route 4 and build 2 or 3 shorter lines by now, if I had my druthers). I don't think Charlotte will ever be that well served by buses, because it is a sprawled city and bus lines do nothing to densify the city to the point where mass transit is effective. Roads are just out of the question; everyone ought to know by now that simply adding lanes has no long-term effect on congestion.

FWIW, I spent over 2 hours triying to drive THROUGH Atlanta this weekend. 8 lanes of stop-and-go for nearly 20 miles. HOV and bus lanes present, but doing nothing to relieve that giant mess of a transit system.

Anonymous said...

And was MARTA of assistance as you drove through? Why didn't you take the train? I'm sure it would have been quicker. No? Maybe a plane? No. A car!? But there aren't enough lanes for cars. Perhaps you should park it and walk.

Anonymous said...

Well, I couldn't take MARTA because as I said I was trying to drive through town ;)

But even if that had not been the case, the MARTA system is so drastically inadequate for Atlanta that it really wasn't an option. This is what happens when a city waits until it's one of the biggest in the country before it starts to work on a rail system. Atlanta only two train lines, and there's hardly anything built up around the stations. So they are basically useless for 90% of the trips you are likely to make around town. This is exactly what Charlotte will be stuck with if it stops building lines prematurely. It is SO important in a center city to have dependable rail transit to all significant locations, that cities which lack a complete system end up with disastrous development patterns.

This is also why it's really important that we hold the City Council accountable for enforcing zoning codes around the stations. Already too many businesses have managed to "negotiate" exceptions; it will be ruinous if suburban-style development is allowed up and down the rail line.

Anonymous said...

Then we should follow Don Lochman's advice. Plan for the lines, buy the right of ways etc, but go slow. Charlotte is not dense enough for rail yet, but perhaps one day it will be.

This helter skelter scurrying about trying to do it all at once is another case of too much too soon.

Anonymous said...

The plan is to be complete in 2030. That's not "soon" by most people's perspective.

The idea is to build one line at a time until it's finished. It really wouldn't make much sense to go slower than that; projects are not supposed to be measured in how many centuries they took to complete.

If anything, it would be nice if we could just bump the tax up to a full cent, finish everything by 2020 and be done with it. At the current pace there's a pretty serious risk that the city will sprawl out to uncontrollable proportions before the transit plan is complete. Since transit is driving densification, there's really not a lot of time to waste.

Anonymous said...

How much will taxes have to be raised to pay for this boondoggle?
Property taxes that is?

In Huntersville, Cornelius and Davidson, one prediction is a 25% property tax increase for rail, which will do very little to reduce congestion.

As congestion is already existent, and light rail is looking for TIF's to pay for it, making the argument light rail is part of the cause of growth, perhaps the 3 towns would be less congested without light rail.

Anonymous said...

^ Makes no sense

Anonymous said...

"Is it really so hard to believe that the city's foremost expert on transit policy already had a pretty good idea what the data would conclude? That would be like Al Gore anticipating that a study would help prove global warming to be true, or Jane Goodall expecting a study to confirm her beliefs about gorilla behavior. Rash is a professional academic who specializes in transit policy; it's his job to be familiar with the kinds of data that everyone here is discussing from an amateur perspective. "


Rash is a professional academic? Not exactly. He's trained as a lawyer -practiced for a few years, was a UNCC administrator -Dean of Admissions I believe- for a few more, and was a Nationsbank Sr. VP for real estate development. In retirement he has been a Visiting Professor, but He's FAR from an academic. In fact he is also far from neutral in this matter, by his own admission.

Whether he is the foremost expert on transit in this are, is a matter of opinion, but it is actually pretty unlikely. He has served on the NC Transportaiton board, and head a bicycle advisory board, but has no academic background in transit and no academic credentials in the area. Odds are that there are literally dozens -perhpas scores- of people locally with more expertise than he in transit.

That little factual matter aside, yes indeed it is IMPOSSIBLE that the he would know what the data would show, since he was speaking of it before Hauser could possibly have known what data would be looked at.

Pay attention here: that the data would be crucial to mount an effective PR campaign against the tax repeal MUST rely upon the use of specific data that is helpful to that specific PR effort. Since not all data regarding transit WOULD be useful in such an effort, and since the tax impact was itself not the focal point of the transit debate in Clt, it is blatantly clear that the PR campaign would direct the nature of the study. Nothing else would have that effect.

If, for example, Hauser had choosen to study the feasibility of the ongoing projects from the stnadpoint of development patterns, it might have been interesitng but would hav had not a thing to do with the anti repeal PR campaign.

But enough. The argument you are making is now become simply ridiculous. No one at all familiar with social science research can read the study without being struck by the flawed methodology. No one, with or without an academic background giving insight into valid research can rad the study and engage in a little fact checking without realizing that it contains errors that are indiciative of, at best, sloppy work, and at worst, an effort at deception. No one can read the email correspondence without realizing that the The study was no independent, but rather was simply a part of Charlotte's Good Ol' Boy network's business as usual.

IF you don't get that, you can't be helped

Anonymous said...

But then again, not all of the data in the study was helpful to the rail campaign. In fact, it has already been pointed out on this blog that it is at best a mixed review. So Hauser's prediction that it would be helpful was only partially correct. Doesn't sound to me like he was shaping the outcome of anything, just taking a well-educated guess that the study would back up what everyone already knows: that the rail system has an overall positive impact.

If indeed he was conspiring to affect the outcome, he did a pretty poor job of it didn't he? One would expect better results from a criminal mastermind.

Anonymous said...

Word on the street is that Rash is connected to recent black helicopter sightings.

Anonymous said...

Not all data in the study was helpful to CATS if one does not look at it comparatively. I.e. Cost over runs are still cost overruns if one simply loks at the data alone. But the study sepcifically presented comparisons with other cities, and in that context they tended to make Charlotte's LRT system look to be around the median. Of course some of the data had to be fudged to accomplish that (if you look, you'll find, for example, that depending on what they wanted to accomplish, they used different numbers for the original cost per mile. If you correct their "mistakes -which they have yet to acknowlege, let alone correct- you find Charlotte fares poorly compared to others, but using their cooked up number it does quite well.)

Try reading the study: there's a reason that it doevetails so precisely with the Chamber's PR campagin which was initiated at the same time the study was requested. It basically says NOTHING negative about CATS and predicts dire things in the event of the repeal.

This is getting to be a hoot. Even the Charlotte Observer undertands what's going on here.

And by the way, Bob Morgan, Edd Hauser, Phil Dubois, Dennis Rash, and for that matter Mary Newsom are all defenders of the status quo in this matter. Those of you who seem to mindlessly jump in with them but who think of yourselves as good liberals might want to give some thought to what that means. The position that they are taking could hardly be described as "liberal". Indeed to act as a counterweight to change and to venerate the status quo -and that's precisely what the pro-transit, pro-tax folks are doing, is very much a characteristic of a politicla conervative, not a liberal.

(But then even Mary can't keep stragiht where she stands on that. On the one hand she claims that anyone who recognizes that the corporate boardrooms run this city and are directly responsible for the LRT plan doesn't know how things work and are wacked out right-wingers, and on the other she uses the corporate argument for a rail line north: it will save property owners the costs of parking spaces.)

Reality: CATS is very near to being a subsidiary of the CoC and CCP, along with BoA; the very un-liberal corporate boardrooms do indeed have enough power to outweigh the electorate on ay issue that matters to them, and Ms Newsom knows it. . . or maybe writing vacuous nonsense abouit pop culture really IS her calling.

Anonymous said...

If changing this city from a barren sprawlopolis to a competitive urban hub is "liberal", then color me blue. I hardly think that the "status quo" in Charlotte involves rail transit, and that "progress" involves a bus-only CATS system. Doublespeak can't help you win this one, I'm afraid.

BTW, the electorate spoke its mind 10 years ago when they decided we are no longer a podunk town and needed more advanced transit options. It will speak again this fall when it sends the conservative cockroaches scurrying back to their talk-radio stations.

K. Rogers said...

They approved a 1/2 cent sales tax. They did NOT approve use of property taxes (ala North Corridor). The mandate has been exceeded and we should be able to give yea or nea on use of property taxes.

Anonymous said...

^ Then hold a referendum on property tax use. Repealing the 1/2 cent tax guarantees a RAISE in prop. taxes, so the Antis are using some contradictory logic somewhere in their stance.

thad said...

Invest in trains or new technology- I say new technology!

Dated June 15, 2007
Yesterday, a Volkswagen Passat drove around a parking lot in Mountain View, CA, made three-point turns, and followed the rules at a four-way stop--all without human intervention. The computer-controlled car is named Junior, and it's Stanford University's official entry in the DARPA Urban Challenge, a race in which an autonomous car must navigate city streets, obey traffic laws, avoid obstructions, and, crucially, drive well among other cars in traffic. This test run is Junior's first public appearance, designed to let DARPA (the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) test the car and determine if it proceeds to the next round in the Urban Challenge.

Another link-
http://www.gpsdaily.com/reports/Winner_Of_DARPA_Robotic_Vehicle_Race_Has_NovAtel_GPS_Onboard.html

Even more-
The DARPA Urban Challenge is an autonomous vehicle research and development program with the goal of developing technology that will keep warfighters off the battlefield and out of harm’s way. The Urban Challenge features autonomous ground vehicles maneuvering in a mock city environment, executing simulated military supply missions while merging into moving traffic, navigating traffic circles, negotiating busy intersections, and avoiding obstacles.

The program is conducted as a series of qualification steps leading to a competitive final event, scheduled to take place on November 3, 2007. The exact location will be announced before the National Qualification Event scheduled for October 2007. DARPA is offering $2M for the fastest qualifying vehicle, and $1M and $500,000 for second and third place.

This program is an outgrowth of two previous DARPA Grand Challenge autonomous vehicle competitions. The first Grand Challenge event was held in March 2004 and featured a 142-mile desert course. Fifteen autonomous ground vehicles attempted the course and no vehicle finished. In the 2005 Grand Challenge, four autonomous vehicles successfully completed a 132-mile desert route under the required 10-hour limit, and DARPA awarded a $2 million prize to “Stanley” from Stanford University.

More-
What is an autonomous ground vehicle?

An autonomous ground vehicle is a vehicle that navigates and drives entirely on its own with no human driver and no remote control. Through the use of various sensors and positioning systems, the vehicle determines all the characteristics of its environment required to enable it to carry out the task it has been assigned.

Why develop autonomous vehicles?

The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2001, Public Law 106-398, Congress mandated in Section 220 that “It shall be a goal of the Armed Forces to achieve the fielding of unmanned, remotely controlled technology such that… by 2015, one-third of the operational ground combat vehicles are unmanned.” DARPA conducts the Urban Challenge program in support of this Congressional mandate. Every “dull, dirty, or dangerous” task that can be carried out using a machine instead of a human protects our warfighters and allows valuable human resources to be used more effectively.

Thad

thad said...

I see GM is getting into the act-
\
That's all changed this year. For 2007, the DARPA Urban Challenge is to navigate city streets, negotiating intersections, merging traffic, unexpected detours, and other unmanned vehicles. Now GM, VW, and others are interested. Alan Taub, GM's Executive Director of R&D sees the end game as a robotic car-not one that must drive itself, or compromises the driver's ability to drive, but one that offers to do the driving in difficult or unpleasant conditions. "For some, DRIVING is the distraction," he quips. These systems will make those folks (and anyone driving near them) safer. Taub also points out that along the way toward the robotic car, GM is rolling out systems that warn drivers of impending danger, intervene to avoid an accident, and relieve drivers of some least pleasant driving tasks. This program involves technology for all of the above.

You want to build trains for the next 25 yrs when this technology is here today! It has come a long way in just a couple of years. Just imagine by 2030- trains will only be used sparingly to transport goods.

Thad

Anonymous said...

In 25 years all Charlotte residents will own a reliable automobile?

Thad, you crack me up.

K. Rogers said...

Anon...7/24/2007 08:19:00 AM

If you read some of my historic posts you will see that property taxes WILL INCREASE even if the 1/2 cent sales tax is not repealed. I posted the following several times. The math is very, very simple:

"According to data presented to City Council, repeal of the 1/2 sales tax would increase the property tax between 4% (bus only) and 22% (bus + 1 train line). The revenue generated by property tax is forecasted at $247.4MM for '07, with an additional $17.6MM from county assesment for shared services (ie: CATS, police, etc). Based on this, the bus only plan incremental is $10.6 MM and the bus+1 line is $58.27 MM. So, one light rail line costs 4.5 times more to operate than the entire the bus system.

It can be extrapolated that a bus + 3 train lines would have an incremental cost of $153.61MM based on '07 dollars. Per the Char-Mek budget, the transit sales tax revenue is forecasted at $62.2 MM in '07. When the full system is online, the operating expenses will be 2.5 times greater (...deficit) than the transit sales tax revenue. Where will this deficit be funded? An increase the transit portion of the sales tax to 1.15 cents would fill the gap, but what politician will approve a measure allowing Mecklenburg's sales tax to balloon to 8.6%? Sale taxes are not generally progressive, as their revenue tends to decline as the rate increases. The next available revenue stream is property taxes

However, the proof is in the pudding: if the property tax increase is automatic if the 1/2 cent sales tax is repealed, then property taxes should never go up to subsidize light rail if the tax is continued. Pretty simple really. Anyone care to sign up for that promise? Probably not..."

Taxes are going to increase anyway. We can improve the siuation by stopping the Light Rail mess now.

Anonymous said...

The status quo is a 1/2 cent sales tax for transit. The status quo is rail transit development. Championing the continuation of those things is indeed defending the ststus quo. There's nothing liberal about seeking to proceed along the path one is already on.

That is not, by the way, to suggest that one ought not want the LRT system to continue or the 1/2 cent sales tax to continue. Those are perfectly valid opinions for one to have and to express. Rather my point is simply that when one is going to attempt ad hominem arguments, as Mary did with regard to those who would believe that the study was in any way connected to the Chamber, it would be useful to realize the meaning of the words used.

Anonymous said...

^ The status quo is that we have no rail: no option to take the train, no option to live in dense developments along a train line, no option to walk in a pedestrian-friendly neighborhood. The beginning of rail development will change the status quo, not reinforce it. To repeal the tax would be to return to what we had before: auto-dependent, freeway-based development sprawling to the horizon. Charlotte has been there for 60 years and is ready to change.

7/24 6:10 anon -- You're talking as if the transit tax was the ONLY source of revenue for the train system, which is not the case.

Anonymous said...

Wow, this blog got a LOT quieter once it was revealed that the city's biggest anti-rail agitator was using the court system to fleece private businesses, which probably gave him a good chunk of the money that he used to force the anti-rail agenda onto the ballot in the first place.

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see her squirt -
she got switched -
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her first throatjob -
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in focus girls -
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in focus girls -
in the vip -
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mr skin -
nikki grinds -
ox pass -
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round and brown -
round mound of ass -
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sapphic erotica -
see her squirt -
she got switched -
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she takes it black -
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big league facials -
big mouthfuls -
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bikini hookups -
black cocks tiny teens -
boys first time -
boys gone bad -
brandi belle -
brandy didder -
britney lightspeed -
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Anonymous said...

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