How to route the to-be-built northeast light rail line? CATS officials are pondering that question. Read about it in this story from Sunday's Observer, from The City section. If you want a public voice, there's a hearing Tuesday 6-8 p.m. in the fellowship hall at Sugaw (not Sugar) Creek Presbyterian Church, at North Tryon Street and Sugar Creek Road.
I was hoping CATS would route the northeast corridor up North Tryon Street instead of the railroad corridor that parallels North Davidson Street. Apparently that's not to be, at least between uptown and NoDa. CATS is still considering whether to put a section of the line along North Tryon between Sugar Creek Road and Eastway Drive. North of Eastway, the route follows North Tryon Street.
I'm very worried about the NoDa business district being beset by the same forces that are hitting South End and threatening the Dilworth historic district and its bungalows. Except the NoDa retail area is closer to the rail line than much of Dilworth, and NoDa's business district has a better preserved "Main Street"-type feel to it than anything that was in Dilworth. That's all at huge risk, because the Transit-Oriented Development (TOD) zoning that applies to transit station areas allows high-rise buildings of up to 120 feet -- or higher if your developer asks for an exemption.
The way land values work, if zoning allows high rise buildings on your land and there's a strong economic market, eventually you're likely to have high rises there. Say so long to the Center of the Earth Gallery building, the Evening Muse building, the Neighborhood Theatre building, and say hello to more brutalist modern towers like the reviled, pink Arlington.
Even more threatening to NoDa is that it lacks even the protection Dilworth has as a historic district. NoDa isn't a local historic district, which requires new development to blend in with the old. Being a historic district hasn't prevented the bulldozing of some bungalows or the ballooning of others into wannabe McMansions twice the size of the original house. But it's much better than no protection at all.
If NoDa's main street were to avoid TOD zoning because the rail stop was put up on North Tryon, then you wouldn't have those sky high, I-can-build-a-tower land values wreaking quite as much havoc on NoDa's business district. The super-intense development would instead be a half mile north on North Tryon Street, which heaven knows could use TOD's better urban design rules as well as stronger economic sizzle. Some South End-style development there would be a very good thing.
In the middle of NoDa, those transit-oriented high-rise buildings would merely kill the special place that has grown up naturally along North Davidson and 36th streets.
One solution would be for the city to craft a more historic-preservation option for TOD, capping heights at three or four stories. Sadly, given the grip developers have on the development-loving city officials, that's about as likely to happen as I am to be picked as the vice presidential candidate for John McCain or Barack Obama.
Monday, July 14, 2008
Transit's threat to NoDa
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48 comments:
I'm sorry, but NoDa is a joke.
People make such a big deal about it, it's not that great a place to go to! If you blink, you miss it!
Quit with the fearmongering Mary! NoDa is already getting mid-rise development thanks to Fat City Lofts and Murcury NoDa in the Neighborhood Theatre's parking lot. Having the light rail line right next to the district as it would drop proplr off right at the doors of all the businesses there. I have a hard time believing that the long time galleries there are in any jeopardy as that community had had a lot of say in the development around it. As for houses becoming McMansions, what would you rather have, the same 800 sq ft mill houses that were there to begin with? And what exactly is wrong with the modern architecture that is going up in Uptown and South End?
Get over it Mary! We all know how you would like to micromanage how people build stuff, and preserve this false history Charlotte doesn't have. Things change, and neighborhoods too. NoDa as as a TOD on a light rail line would only amplify what is already special about the area. Perhaps it could become the next Cambridge.
I spent a lot of time in NODA during my college years. But I really want the Rail to reach UNCC so do what you got to do.
NoDa has changed so much that keeping it "bohemian" for the long-term is a moot point. Land values there are far out of reach for even middle-class families, let alone hand-to-mouth individual artists. The best any true bohemian could hope for would be leasing a room in a 16th St. crackhouse.
Go ahead and lay the line where it needs to go. Any way you look at it, NoDa and South End are basically headed for the same kind of future. This is why the "underground" scene has never arisen in Charlotte and probably never will.
Mary,
I agree with you that they need to set up different zones for the different stations depending on what would best suit the current area around the station. I totally agree with you that N Tryon needs help but NODA should be left the way it is and the building kept to the height of the current tallest building.
In Mary's world...
Developers...BAAAD
New Buildings...BAAAD
People deciding what to do with their own property...BAAAAD
Preserving some Norman Rockwell scene that never existed....GOOOD
You'd think Mary would've learned something up there in Harvard this past year. Apparently not.
I am a Dilworth resident Mary. It is not a historic district. It is an aesthetic district; as you point out, the McMansions have over taken ANYTHING historic in Dilworth. Why shouldn't the city allow condos and larger projects when the DCDA will let you turn a 1500sq "historic home" into a 4,000sq monster? Who really is ruining the "historic" Dilworth? It's not light rail. And how many buildings are "historic" in NODA?
NoDA is a dump. The only thing over there worth frequenting is the Neighborhood Theatre. A very cool place (perhaps not as cool as the Visulite, though it is a good deal larger.) Besides that one building/establishment as far as I'm concerned "they" could, and perhaps, should, raze the whole place.
I was in South End at the Vespa dealership yesterday and couldn't believe how the area has changed in just 7 months since I lived there. What it really reminds me of now is New York's SoHo district. I can't imagine how ANYONE would think South End's renaissance is a bad thing. When I first moved to Charlotte 10 years ago South End was nothing but empty crumbling old warehouses, where you'd expect some crack addict to jump out from the shadows and try to mug you. South End's revival has helped bring up the surrounding neighborhoods of Wilmore and Wesley Heights, and has built a bridge linking Dilworth to downtown. I actually think going forward that I'd enjoy living in South End better than downtown... there will be more culture, more shops, bars, restaurants, without the banks and college bars downtown is overrun with.
I personally think light rail would only intensify what's already in NoDa, and I've got a BA in Urban Planning :-). It's true that the last of the bohemians were run out when Fat City closed. So what does the area have without them? A couple of pricey galleries and so-so restaurants... the biggest asset the area had has long since been priced out. However, the type of development that light rail would bring to NoDa could turn the area into a truly neat little urban village.
I still don't see what all the fuss is about all these years later regarding the Arlington either. It's a CITY people. That means there are going to be buildings short and tall, new and old, to your personal design taste and otherwise, etc. If y'all don't like urban development and densification, move out to the 'burbs in your SUV and deal with lengthening commutes, identical houses with garages for facades, and vinyl siding and bradford pair trees as far as the eye can see :-P.
Ever tasted a Bradford pear?
:-D
The contradictions are just too funny.
Mary doesn't want people to live in the suburbs, BUT...
Mary doesn't want sufficient housing for people to be able to live inside the city.
Curious. You'd almost think she was completely oblivious to market economics or something...
McMansions vs. McCulture.
You'd almost think she was completely oblivious to market economics or something...
I don't think that.
I know it for a fact.
People like Mary want light rail because (1) it allows them the chance to micromanage everything around the rail line and (2) it helps them force people to live in urban shoeboxes.
But then they complain because the light rail line affects everything around it. It's like a person who shoots themselves with the gun they bought and them complains that guns are harmful. Don't know how to break this to you people, but things don't exist in vacuums; if the rules for rail lines say you can build high-rises and then you run the rail line through a neighborhood, don't act all surprised when people start wanting to build high-rises.
You made the bed. Now you have to lie in it.
Cities change, and viable cities need good transportation. You can't keep NODA small and bohemian forever. Lets face it NODA has gained popularity that was inevitable, and with that will come more growth weather liked or not. Let it go!
Wow... I am utterly shocked at the comments left on this story. No seriously, wasn't expecting this. I read the article, and while I don't follow along with Mary's blurbs, it seems to me that she is just like every other "dreamer" out there who wants their cake and eat it too.
I have a BS in City & Regional Planning, and fully expected to blast Mary for this sad excuse of a defense for the sad excuse that is NoDa. But about 13 people already beat me to it! Dang.
I personally think NoDa is 2 city blocks worth of trash and would love it demolished. However, from a Planner's view, if it is to be saved from development, it can do it on its own. CATS is building the line based on the bottom line. My bottom line. If "destroying" a "cultural" (and I use destroy and culture VERY loosely) area will cost tax payer's more by diverting the line to N. Tryon, then its not worth it. Totalitarianism needs to work here, the greatest good for the greatest amount of people. If NoDa is so special and thriving, it will be just fine. So please, shut up, you don't know what you're talking about.
ZING!
From the inside, it's funny to hear everyone opinion of my neighborhood. Because from here, you couldn't PAY me to live in Ballantyne or Huntersville or even Dilworth, or anywhere other than here. I can't blame you though, I had a preconceived notion of NODA before I moved in here. But I was wrong. And you are all wrong. For the two urban planners who posted on here , you must be joking to see that NODA is not a dream for new urbanists (and the LYNX only amplifies that). We are a close knit, self contained enclave. And anyone who visits here is welcome but at the end of the night you must get back into you car and drive home. I walk home, and I can't wait to take the Lynx home.
Oh and don't worry about little old NODA getting swindled by the developers. We are all very active and aware of what is going on, and we will do only what is best for ourselves and our neighbors. And Mary can pass judgment on our collective decisions, but we are doing whats right for us...not her.
I love NoDa. It's way too small and more locally owned businesses need to open. And preserve what we have now. The recently approved redo plan for mixed income space in the mills will be great. The hate and ridicule toward NoDa is something I don't understand.
I guess these people consider Ballantyne a cultural and artistic destination. Finally the neighborhood association has grown a great deal in clout. They have been great advocates so far and the city is listening to them. NoDa should only get better and the mass transit should help and not be a hindrance if NoDa's history is respected.
I don't understand why people think that successful neighborhoods have to be a snapshot in time. NoDa is a mash-up of a variety of building sizes, aesthetics, and uses; you are suggesting that we somehow preserve how it is right now? I say let it continue to change and evolve! Change is how it got to be such an interesting, fun area in the first place.
You know what attracts artists, musicians and bohemian people? Cheap housing and rail transit. Right now NoDa has neither of those. With light rail, it will get more of the equation than it has right now.
Get a grip, Mary.
What's happening to NoDa is what happens to virtually every locale that becomes hip: Hipness draws money, but money kills hipness. The very popularity of the neighborhood is what is destroying what made it special to begin with.
There are only two things you can do: You can either let the market work, which will, yes, turn NoDa into just another revitalized-but-no-longer-cool neighborhood. Or, you can try to artificially maintain the hip factor by making all sorts of rules that things can't be allowed to change.
Of course, this second option completely ignores the rights of those who own property in that area to do with it what they will. Not to mention, most people can sense fake hipness a mile away.
NoDa should be allowed to evolve, not treated like some hothouse orchid just because a bunch of people who don't actually live there want to treat it like some sort of theme park. Unfortunately, Charlotte is full of people who want to treat everything like a theme park, full of rides and sparkly things.
In case you haven't noticed, NoDa (which really only existed before it was ever called NoDa) is dead already. The NoDa that exists today is really something that is fit for light rail development.
I think the rail should have a stop right in the middle of NoDa. Then it might make it something worth naming.
Sorry Know Duh,as a proud Dilworther I can't let that insult pass. Our walkability to restaurants and a safe supermarket puts NoDa to shame. Give me a break.
Gentrification
the whole reason that NoDa blew up was the prospect of Light Rail - trust me I invested there. NoDa needs Light Rail, duhh!
I suppose I'm the only one here so far that was and is opposed to Charlotte light rail at all!
In order for light rail to work (which it doesn't in most of the places taxpayers’ money has been wasted on it) the density needs to increase to a level that Charlotte can only begin to imagine...and most of us don’t want!
This density is only achieved by forced zoning that by definition needs to increase the height and size of buildings running along the corridor. Of course, along with this forced densification comes WORSE traffic than we previously had as more and more people are forced into a smaller and smaller area. Duh.
The nine point whatever mile long Lynx line is a joke. Once people start realizing that the 15 miles out of their way they are driving to save the nine mile ride uptown (where most Charlotteans don’t even work mind you!) the novelty of being “cool” will quickly die down. I love the people showing how ridership numbers are outperforming what was anticipated! Doesn’t anyone remember how they kept dropping the already LOW ridership projections for just this reason? Set low expectations and then cheer about your results! How Charlotte!
Just to put it perspective, according to US Census numbers, Charlotte’s density is currently 2,515/sq mi. New York’s is 27,147, Chicago’s is 12,470, and DC’s is 9,015! Even Atlanta’s is 3,921…and they have finally realized that Marta was a bust and they have begun massive new highway projects to keep up with people’s real transportation needs.
For what light rail has cost us already, we could have finished and widened 485, and performed massive and functional refits of every major road in Charlotte-Mecklenburg. Instead we get a 9 mile long joy ride to nowhere. Woopee!
I love Charlotte and think it is a great city...but our supposed "visionaries" are ruining it. It's easy to micro-manage with other peoples money and zero accountability in the long term. At this rate Charlotte will be bankrupt in 25 years...and one giant ghetto to boot. Just wait until Wachovia or BofA leave!
The above comment on the light rail in Charlotte still just makes me shake my head. The numbers for Charlotte's light rail projected ridership haven't changed since I was doing my undergrad urban planning work some 5 years ago. The numbers were not altered to become more politically correct, and were made LONG before all the scrutiny came down upon the light rail the last couple of years (which I feel was typical local news trying to fabricate a headline and blow a story WAY out of proportion). Numbers don't lie... the light rail as of last month is getting close to double the original projected riders. If you look at the light rail as simply doomed from day one you are totally looking at it the wrong way. Of course Charlotte doesn't have the density to support it fully at the moment. The idea is to foster the type of smart growth along transit lines that WILL support rail transit. Of course rail transit will not be everyone's cup of tea, but the point is to at least give people the option to get off the interstates and to be able to spend commuting time in a more fulfilling way. Contrary to common belief, you cannot build more lanes to roads and freeways and simply build your way out of congestion. Traffic will always fill them up as soon as they're built, and you're still back at square one. Cities above 500,000 people need more options than just freeways for transportation, period. The reality of $4+ gas is entirely changing the game too. People are becoming less car centered, are driving less, are buying smaller cars and scooters, and are using public transit more than ever. Light rail is a natural progression for Charlotte, especially given all the above circumstances.
Regarding people thinking I'm criticizing NoDa, I'm not! :-) I love NoDa, and am so glad Charlotte has neighborhoods like it. It's just not the same place it was years ago. All the artists and such that I know make their scene around Plaza Midwood these days, because NoDa has become Disneyfied and overpriced. Again, I still love NoDa... I have many fond memories from college hanging out there. I strongly feel that light rail development can only build on what's already there. There will be no razing of Center Of The Earth gallery or the Neighborhood Theatre. Those are the cornerstones of the area, and there is plenty of land to develop/redevelop without sacrificing those. Even if NoDa becomes another Dilworth (a little too gentrified for the commoner), there will always be another area where the bohemians will be staking their claim. Long before the artists transformed NoDa, the area was a working class mill village known as North Charlotte. Morale of the story is: nothing ever remains the same...
Cities evolve. Yes, artists are probably priced out of NODA already and probably out of South End too. They are creative people and will find the next place and start turning that area around. They don't need the help of city planning to preserve an area that they already can't afford.
As certain neighborhoods grow expensive people move elsewhere and start improving other areas. My neighborhood is a prime example. People who can no longer afford NODA, Chantilly, Midwood are buying up the affordable housing and improving the area, pushing the riff raff further out. It rolls on.
To me- stupid to ask people to try to get density up on North Tryon- an industrial corridor. Why not put density in an area that already offers some appeal and popularity? Do you know how long it took 3030 South to get moving vs the projects that flank Dilworth in South end?
Seriously- I grow so weary of people griping about Charlotte. There sure are a lot of housing choices for such a backwards developer driven city (note the sarcasm). For under $200,000 you can have a single family home with a big yard adjacent to a nature preserve within 3 miles of uptown, a studio in a high rise, a condo or town house in a popular neighborhood close to town, a new home in the 'burbs. Try finding that in any of the cities that people like Mary love to hold up as bastions of great development and planning. Huh. And you can thank a developer for those choices.
There is already a perfectly good railroad right-of-way going through North Davidson; why not use it?
If it is not converted for light rail, it should be converted into a pedestrian-bicycle route (as many other abandoned rail lines have been all over the country.)
What's there to protect in NODA? It's a few streets of ridiculously overpriced mill homes surrounded by ghetto.Hopefully light rail will spur redevlopment from Uptown all the way to NODA and beyond, and run the gangbangers and associated riff-raff out to the hinterlands.
Housing costs are driving out many people in the "creative class" from center city neighborhoods. Plaza-Midwood is also far too pricey for many. Merry Oaks and Windsor Park are becoming the new frontiers for these folks. Because of their suburban feel, these neighborhoods may not have the gritty hip factor of NoDa but the homes there are younger and need less investment to renovate. Folks who are priced out of hotter 'hoods like Myers Park, Cotswold, South End, NoDa, Wilmore etc. find Merry Oaks and Windsor Park to make sense for them.
City officials and planners understand that they've just about reached the end of what they can annex to grow the tax base. Now they're trying to increase density to generate increaed value in areas that already have city services. Density and efficiency is what cities are about.
Just a thought -- while it's true that NoDa and South End have both become too expensive for "bohemians" (do real bohemians even exist in this country? maybe on the west coast but not in NC...), it's also worth considering that South End is now the city's center of design studios and NoDa is now full of proper galleries.
Neither neighborhood is exactly bohemian, but they're a good option for educated, successful people looking to make a good living in the arts. If you are a serious artist you can find no better place in Charlotte than NoDa to buy and operate a gallery. In the long run it might be better for the city to have safe, artsy districts where artists can rise to true prominence and contribute at a high level, than to have a bunch of scrubby dangerous neighborhoods for graffiti artists to thrive.
NODA was cool, years ago. Now it's inhabited by yuppies and frat boy types. You can still buy crack a couple yeards awya, though, and if you're lucky, maybe someone will break into your car.
Some of the comments here are counterproductive and just plain juvenile. I agree with the poster who said that they are tired of all the griping about Charlotte. I also agree with the poster who suggested that we let NoDa evolve as it will, since that is what made it a unique place to begin with. This entire city, like Noda and the works displayed in its galleries, are a work in progress. Why can't we work together to make progress. Yes, planning needs to be a part of the equation, but not to the extent that it cripples the very growth it is trying to foster in the first place.
So what you're saying is it's all about size for you? Hah!
My family and I live in NoDa, and we moved in just a few months before Fat City closed...my husband is an artist, and I am in academia...hence, we are a pretty liberal although poor bunch. If we hadn't bought our house when we did, we couldn't have afforded to move to this area. Certainly, aspects of NoDa have changed since I visited as a hippy college student, but overall we are still very happy with the neighborhood. We have looked forward to the light rail line, and really, in the whole scheme of things, whatever happens is fine. We count ourselves as lucky to be so near downtown, and yet still have that "small town" feeling. Some of the change is not so great, but as with most things, that change is functional and dysfunctional...for those of us who chose to make NoDa our home, versus a place to visit, I think we'll make the light rail work for us. I do hope that much of the current structures stay the same, but if they change, so be it, we'll figure something out. As a community, we will survive.
Well said. All things considered, we are the residents and we can take care of ourselves. We will be who we are, no matter what changes around us. That's the true spirit of NODA (present day, or days past)
Please go to www.wikiplanning.org and login to the project using the password NODA. There you will find information on the proposed Light Rail Station @ 36th Street, and the potential changes the station siting might bring to the neighborhood. You can also take a survey and contribute to the project Blog
“Numbers don't lie... the light rail as of last month is getting close to double the original projected riders.”
Again, the projected ridership was decreased from where it was originally 6-7 years ago. And regardless (because I’m basing that on memory alone…lost all my old files in a computer crash) even at it’s “double” rate…it still is nowhere next to breaking even financially. Not one system in this country actually pays for itself with ticket sales. It’s the taxpayer that gets stuck with the bill.
That makes your statement about “giving people a choice” almost insulting. Light rail and increased density force greater traffic congestion. Period. So, while you enjoy your choo choo train, I’m stuck subsidizing your ride and sitting it worse traffic. Where’s my choice in the matter?!
I mean, seriously, everyone wants to be like New York and Chicago. You know what? If you want the horrible traffic, high cost of living, horrible schools (oh wait, we already have those), high crime, etc of New York…you are welcome to it. How about moving there? I like Charlotte just the way it is thank you very much. Change isn’t always for the better!
I'm just glad to see that so many folks take an interest in the development of the neighborhood. I agree with a previous comment, as soon as someone decided to run with the "NoDa" moniker, the bohemian community was all but lost. But it's still a developing neighborhood with a good amount of historically-significant housing stock, so it's an opportunity for new buyers to get into an area where they can actually have an impact on the way things unfold here. And personally, if someone is going to drop way too much money on a house, I'd rather see them do it here than in Ballantyne. That being said, I would also hope that the sort of person who is attracted to the still-funky vibe of Historic North Charlotte - the actual name of the residential part of the 'hood - would want to preserve and improve the buildings that can be saved rather than raze everthing and build the dreaded McMansion...
^ That's the truth.
Oh, and by the way: we do not like to be called "funky." That's how you describe white people dancing, or marky mark's friends....not real artists and musicians. :)
12:57 - No transit project of ANY kind EVER breaks even, so why imply that LYNX should make a profit? Would you also want to put toll booths on 485 so it'll break even? Maybe attach a nice fat fare to driving down 74 where it's been widened? Put toll gates on all those neighborhood streets that've been built lately?
LYNX "loses" money in the sense that ticket sales don't cover costs, but it makes money back by the truckload in terms of the tax base and increased ability to host large money-making events like the ACC Tournament. That puts it right on par with any other major transit project, the difference being that it adds an extra option for anyone not wanting to drive all the way into and out of the city. Whatever density it creates is nullified by the fact that you don't have to drive through it.
I thought all this was covered years ago when the ditto-heads had their heyday. Now it's turned out that "your" side was wrong on the issue. Everything the pro-railers predicted came to fruition, plus some unexpected gains on top. Just live with it and move on... no need to fight the lost cause forever.
LYNX "loses" money in the sense that ticket sales don't cover costs, but it makes money back by the truckload in terms of the tax base and increased ability to host large money-making events like the ACC Tournament.
Except, of course, for the fact that we won't be getting any more ACC Tournaments here because the arena is so small.
Whatever density it creates is nullified by the fact that you don't have to drive through it.
It's not nullified at all. The congestion on the streets surrounding the rail line is worse now than it was before.
Except, of course, for the fact that we won't be getting any more ACC Tournaments here because the arena is so small.
The old Coliseum was also too small for current ACC standards, so we haven't lost anything in that respect. On the other hand we've gained the CIAA tournament, which used to be in Raleigh.
It's not nullified at all. The congestion on the streets surrounding the rail line is worse now than it was before.
It would have been worse either way due to growth in that area. The rail line didn't cause congestion any more than Tylenol causes headaches.
Of course, one now has the option to bypass street congestion by simply riding the rail line. If you CHOOSE to drive a car straight into it, that is your CHOICE (see the pattern?) and you will have to deal with the consequences of sitting in traffic.
While I find it quaint that cries of preservation and altruism of "artists" lifestyles pepper the intent of those against having the light rail stop in NoDa, I can't help but snicker when time comes for these same anti-rail-in-NoDa people want (or need) to sell their house. What's your asking price per square feet? You gotta be kidding! Joke, smoke, it's about economics. Even Mary has a price.
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